Beyond Soundbites: From Case Studies To Client Stories

CareersTech and Tools

Apr 1

Written By Sara Lobkovich

Self-promotion can feel uncomfortable—especially for introverted, thoughtful, or reserved Thinkydoers. But what if sharing your impact didn’t have to feel like cringey “bragging?”

In this episode, client experience copywriter and founder of The Content Witches, Nailah King, joins host Sara Lobkovich to explore how to craft authentic client stories that go beyond traditional case studies. Nailah shares practical strategies for telling compelling stories that showcase your work—even when your impact isn’t easily measured in revenue or metrics.

Learn how to manage rejection sensitivity and build confidence in sharing your work stories; and, how to create marketing materials that align with your values instead of squeezing your unique approach into conventional formats.

Episode Highlights:

Why traditional case studies don’t work for every business and how to tell client stories differently
Strategies for showcasing your impact without relying on revenue-based metrics
Managing rejection sensitivity and building confidence in sharing your work
How introverted and low-energy Thinkydoers can approach self-promotion authentically
Aligning your marketing materials with your values instead of forcing them into conventional formats
Practical storytelling techniques to make your work more visible and engaging
The emotional side of marketing—navigating vulnerability, rejection, and self-doubt
Nailah’s personal journey and lessons learned from working with values-driven clients
First steps to crafting client stories that feel natural, honest, and impactful

Key Concepts Explored:

Authentic Storytelling & Client Impact
- Why traditional case studies don’t work for every business and how to create meaningful client stories
- Strategies for showcasing impact without relying on revenue-based metrics
- The power of storytelling to make your work more visible and engaging
Self-Promotion for Introverts & Low-Energy Thinkydoers
- How to market yourself authentically without feeling like you’re bragging
- Overcoming the fear of visibility and rejection sensitivity
Values-Aligned Marketing & Ethical Storytelling
- Creating marketing materials that reflect your values rather than fitting into conventional formats
- The emotional side of sharing your work—navigating vulnerability, self-doubt, and rejection
- How ethical storytelling can help build stronger client relationships and trust
Building Confidence & Overcoming Rejection Sensitivity
- Understanding rejection sensitivity and how it affects self-promotion
- Strategies for developing confidence in sharing your work and experiences
- First steps to telling client stories in a way that feels natural and impactful

Notable Quotes:

"I don't get to tell you what you found valuable at the end of the day. I can ask questions that help you explore that, but I don't get to determine the most important feature or experience that you had with us working together." - Nailah King (00:05:00)

"Not all of us have work that fits into soundbites and all the attention is paid to getting us to squeeze our work into soundbites." - Sara Lobkovich (00:16:00)

"Honor your energetics, honor your process, honor the format. If it's accessible to you, hire someone. If not, there are ways to do this work that are just easier. But you don't have to miss out, and you don't have to feel excluded. These stories are for us as well." - Nailah King (00:43:00)

Chapters:

00:00:00 Welcome to Thinkydoers podcast and introduction
00:01:00 Introduction to Nailah King and why Sara invited her on the podcast
00:03:00 Book launch announcement for "You Are A Strategist"
00:04:00 Nailah introduces herself and her work
00:05:00 How Nailah's approach differs from traditional case studies
00:09:00 The importance of centering the client's experience in storytelling
00:12:00 Balancing values-based work with business needs
00:17:00 Addressing struggles with talking about oneself and one's impact
00:21:00 Switching from teaching mode to emotional storytelling
00:24:00 Overcoming shyness when approaching clients for stories
00:28:00 Tips for handling rejection sensitivity
00:35:00 How Nailah creates safe spaces for client interviews
00:41:00 Key takeaways for introverts and Thinkydoers

Guest Information:

Nailah King is a copywriter who specializes in client storytelling, particularly for thoughtful and introspective professionals who prefer a more authentic and less high-pressure approach to marketing. She focuses on crafting case studies that feel more like engaging client narratives rather than dry testimonials.

Nailah’s Resources Mentioned:

A shout-out to Sarah Moon & Co, who brought Nailah and I together:

Sarah Moon Consulting website
And here’s the client story that Nailah wrote with Sara L, for Sarah M!

Sara’s Links and Resources:

Join Sara’s Email List: Get updates on OKRs, strategy, and workplace wellbeing and performance at ck.redcurrantco.com
Book Website: Now available! Learn more abpit You Are a Strategist at youareastrategist.com
Book launch squad: f indrc.co/launchsquad
Connect with Sara via LinkedIn, Bluesky, Threads, or Mastodon
Podcast Home Page: Thinkydoers Podcast

Find full show notes and the episode transcript via https://findrc.co/thinkydoers !

Full Episode Transcript:

Sara: Welcome to the Thinkydoers podcast. Thinkydoers are those of us drawn to deep work, where thinking is working. But we don't stop there. We're compelled to move the work from insight to idea, through the messy middle, to find courage and confidence to put our thoughts into action. I'm your host, Sara Lobkovich. I'm a strategy coach, a huge goal-setting and attainment nerd, and board-certified health and wellness coach, working at the overlap of work-life well-being. I'm also a Thinkydoer. I'm here to help others find more satisfaction, less frustration, less friction, and more flow in our work. My mission is to help changemakers like you transform our workplaces and world. So let's get started.

[00:01:00] Hello, friends! Nailah King is here with us today. And Nailah is a copywriter with a specific specialty. We met when my business bestie Sarah Moon asked if I would do a client story for her. Nailah writes Sarah's case studies, but they're actually client stories, not your typical case study. I had a really awesome experience working with Nailah as a client's client, and I wanted to bring her on because she has a unique perspective on helping us more shy, introverted, low-spoon Thinkydoer types with storytelling, especially when we feel like traditional approaches to case studies and marketing just don't fit for us. Nailah and I have a chat about setting yourself up for success with these kinds of getting people to talk about you and what you do, which is really getting them to talk about themselves and their experience with you. And that doesn't just apply to business owners.This can also be applied to building your reputation within a workplace [00:02:00] with kind of internal word-of-mouth. Some of the same principles apply, and Nailah has some guidance for us on how we can overcome some of the barriers that some of us have in sharing our impact.

So, if you've ever struggled with asking clients or stakeholders to share their experience working with you, this episode is specifically for you.

All right, before we dive in, we are in the launch of You Are a Strategist: Use No-BS OKRs to Get Big Things Done, my first book, We already achieved a top new release badge in one of our categories on Amazon, even before the book was released, while it's just in pre-order. So I am super excited and if you've been here for a while, I want to thank you for your support around the book and getting it through its process and into the world,

You can go to youareastrategist.com The very first release is an ebook release and then paperback, hardback, and audiobook will follow. Asking for help is my [00:03:00] kryptonite, but I'm asking for help. We need amplification in social media and with the book review sites. We need reviewers. There are lots of ways to support. And then of course, we also need book sales. So visit you are a strategist.com for more information. And again, thank you so much.

Sara: All right, folks, I have a really big treat today. Nailah is here. We met when my business bestie, Sarah Moon, asked if I would do a client testimonial for her. And quick shout out to Sarah Moon because she's brought incredible people into my business orbit. Sarah is a, I would just call her a strategist, but she has specialties in SEO, and web stuff, and content. She's my right hand when it comes to business strategy. And Nailah writes her case studies for her, but they're client stories. And so we got to talking, we got to know each other while we were doing the interview, [00:04:00] also became business besties. And I wanted to bring Nailah on to help us shy, low-spoon, introverted types with storytelling. So, we're going to have a more unstructured conversation today because I'm not sure where this one's going to go. But we'll just start talking, and we'll record it, and then we'll share the good bits. Go ahead and introduce yourself, tell us who you are and what you do.

Nailah: I am Nailah King, a client experience copywriter, and strategist, and founder of The Content Witches. And I help values-led strategists, consultants, and facilitators by creating client success stories that build trust, deepen connections, and inspire their community.

Sara: It's different, though, what you do, than most case studies. So tell me a little bit about what you do differently and what your method is.

Nailah: I have a different approach than your standard case study. And [00:05:00] there's nothing wrong with the standard case study — if you like it, I love it, is what I always say. But I felt like it could be exclusive for me. I am awkward, and I don't have the biggest client Rolodex, so I'm typically looking for clients to feature that have more unique problems or challenges or are doing the bulk of their work that they do with their clients is more of a "done-with-you". They may not necessarily be able to say that they like 10X-ed their income. Some clients, speaking of Sarah Moon, are obviously able to create that transformation. But other folks are making impact in different ways. Like a lot of folks, I'm the first test case of this. And I just struggled because I didn't always have that "I 10X-ed this," "I 10X-ed that," "I doubled this," "I tripled that." I found that like really challenging in my own work, and then I was finding other like-minded [00:06:00] people who were having the same issues. They do great work with their clients, they have great relationships with their clients. But when it came to the sort of case study format, they couldn't really fit their process or framework or the results into that format. It didn't work for them. So they assumed that they weren't for them. It wasn't accessible to them. That's how that started. And then there's the marketing part of this, right? Which is when I create client stories, it's more of a comprehensive conversation. You can do that conversation in 30 minutes. I typically don't. For two reasons. One, I don't like to censor y'all. I like you to talk, talk your stuff, whatever that stuff is. We have questions, obviously, there is some form of structure, but if something I've asked you is leading you towards a wider topic or even a tangent, I want you to express yourself. I want us to follow that tangent. I'm not here to control or censor people. Some of those tangents lead to really great results and conversations that, [00:07:00] if I had asked a generic question or went down a more case-study-like route, we would have missed. And those are also the things that my clients are — they're going through my notes and going through the stories being like, "I never knew they felt that way." "I never knew that was important to them." "This is something that I actually see some of my prospective clients, people who are going on discovering calls, being concerned about. They need to hear this story." Because in a lot of ways, this one story is reflective of their other wider clients. And again, from the marketing perspective, I like to create a lot of long-form versions of this so I can chop things up and consistently have a lot of marketing assets to share, without always having to go back to square one because that's how I felt with testimonials. I do a project, and then the project would wrap. I have to go to the testimonial, and it's been a year or two, or maybe three. And because of how testimonials generally work, there's sort of a life cycle to those. I don't necessarily use [00:08:00] testimonials from the beginning of my business. Not because those people aren't valuable. I cherish our work together, but half of those services I don't have anymore. So I needed something more evergreen. So I try to create that in my own work, but also for my client.

Sara: So, what really is different about what you do is, you don't just make the case study that is, "I got X result" or "the soundbite." You develop stories about people's clients. So you do interviews, and then you develop a story that's about the client, not just about the service or the service provider. I'm just super curious, how did you have that idea? I mean, you said you needed it for yourself, but do you remember what brought you to that idea?

Nailah: I think it was a rejection of I feel like those stories are intertwined. The story of what my client is doing and the story of what I'm doing, to me, they are tethered. We can't have one without the other. However, I'm all about centering the client and their [00:09:00] experience, because we're often told you have to look for these types of results about an experience that I'm not having. I don't get to tell you what you found valuable at the end of the day. I can ask questions that help you explore that, but I don't get to determine the most important feature or experience that you had with us working together. And I think that's also beautiful, but it's also a missed opportunity. What was told to go for soundbite-only opportunities, or money- or profit-based things. And those do have value, but you miss things. So I think when I was starting to do my own testimonials or helping others with their testimonials, I felt like we were missing things and this is a slight aside. But one of the reasons why I ditched my novel project is because I went through the whole thing and realized I was telling the wrong story. This was not what people needed to know. It's not the direction I needed to go in. And as it relates to clients and business, [00:10:00] I think there's this notion that, probably because of existing frameworks, they will remain redacted, but there are existing frameworks that tell you, you have to follow a certain journey and you have to go a certain way. And that's just not people's experience. People who are often left out are obviously the people I mentioned who have impact beyond profit. But what if you work with that client again? What happens to that story? What if you don't have a linear transformation? And this happens a lot with low-spoons folks, if you didn't have the time or the energy to implement that strategy until a year later, two years later, three years later? All of these people who are having these great experiences, but there's nuance to that, we're being left out. How I thought to do it and pivot away from that was, I just would see so many stories just on the cutting room floor, because again, I couldn't make them work into that structure that is universally accepted. And so I decided to create more or less my own and started to ask different questions.

This is exactly why I wanted to have you on. [00:11:00] I have just realized that marketing the way we're supposed to is not compatible with my brain or my existence after marketing the way we're supposed to for 30 years. You saw how the status quo of marketing wasn't working for you and what the missed opportunities were, and decided to do your own thing. In terms of the quality of the work that you do for clients, it's super impactful. I felt honored when Sarah asked if I would do a client story with you because it's not just good for Sarah, it's great for me too, to show up in that way.

Sara: I think one of the things that stands out to me is I personally run a business because I have to pay my bills, because I live in capitalism, but I'm not motivated by those same, 10x-your-revenue. I would never make a claim like that about my work. I think you've found a way to tell stories that feel more compatible for those of us who are [00:12:00] values-based, not just revenue-oriented. So how do you think about that as a balance when you're working with clients, between, our lack of natural wiring for capitalism and still be writing client stories that support a business?

Nailah: There are some people, and even stories I've written about where the person was like, "I need to get this revenue up." I'm not negating those stories; I'm not mad at those stories. But the majority of people, and I've written about 15 of these in almost two years, so quite a few across different sectors, I did some for a farmer, for example, who runs not-for-profit. And the trend that I always notice is even in instances where they say that money is the factor, they're actually looking for something else. So I think I always look to the client: What are they looking for when they go into this interaction or project or this conversation or what-have-you? What are they looking for? And [00:13:00] again, there are exceptions to every rule, that's life. But nine times out of ten, people are trying to gain more clarity, trying to be in a space where they can explore things with the practitioner or with the person that they're working with. They're not always looking for these profit-based results to be centered even in their own story because you're real humans. People have to make money. I acknowledge that, but I don't know that we spend our entire existence, our raison d'être, just thinking about revenue all the time. I think that it's framed that way because it's a, it's something that is simpler or more linear to quantify. It's easy to say, "I invested X, I made X. The overall profit is X." Whereas, I think it's more challenging to say how someone helped you clarify your thought process, or in the case of Sarah, helped you build your own framework. Because the result of that is [00:14:00] going to take years, potentially. Not because it's not effective, but to be able to track all the various nuanced ways of how it's helped you, you're going to be tracking that for years. So I think "beyond profit" is definitely how I frame this. But there's also so many things that clients want from us that are beyond that. And yes, it helps me because those aren't necessarily the results that I bring exclusively. But I think it helps clients because they decide, you decide how you want to be engaged with and what you're looking for and the results that you want to celebrate and the things that you want to achieve. I feel like the challenge with always pushing profit-based results or even quantitative results is that what the client actually came to you to do? I understand an instance where you're going to like an accountant or a money coach, money-related results make sense. But if you're going to, like, even a copywriter ora system specialist, does that make [00:15:00] sense? Is that really what every person's going into any partnership looking for? So again, I just let the client determine. What's most valuable. What often happens to you in the interviews that I have is we'll get to the end of the call and someone will remark like, "Oh, I didn’t realize that this not profit-based facet actually meant a lot to me," because we spent a lot of time talking about it. Whereas any other results are very cut and dry. They're like, "I made this money, I upped this traffic," and it's a very short conversation. Whereas how my clients made them feel is a so much longer of a conversation. And that tells me in five years where they've moved on and they're so successful, and they met all those money-based benchmarks. They're going to remember that you were the client that made them feel good and made them feel proud of their business and gave them clarity.

Sara: What you're hitting on is Not all of us have work that fits into soundbites and all the attention is paid to getting us to squeeze our work into [00:16:00] soundbites. And what you're doing is saying, "No. If you're a passion-driven, values-led, not a soundbite service provider business, you've got this long-tail impact, then tell that story." But we're also the ones who might be the least comfortable talking about ourselves. Do you see that often? Is it clients that struggle to talk about themselves that you work with

Nailah: I think it's not so much that they struggled to talk about themselves, but like, back and forth, "Is what I'm doing flashy enough? Is it results-based enough? Is it worth doing the client story for?" I had someone recently who does, backend stuff say, "Well, my transformations don't have an emotional or destructive impact." And I'm like, "You sure?" Because if you got a messy backend, and that's been bugging the heck out of you. And you come in and you make that thing workable, there's an emotional impact. [00:17:00] There's relief. There's reduction of stress. And then I could see the wheels turning to them, to be like, "Oh, that does have value," because they've been told what they do is maybe not that flashy or exciting or wouldn't have an emotional impact. But we are impacted emotionally because business is personal. We go to a service provider for example to help us with something, and that something is not always measurable by some benchmark, or metric, or something that's numbers-based. But you're absolutely transforming someone's experience. We're also in a culture where we're told to minimize what we do. So, you know this personally, I'm always the person who's like, "I'm not minimizing that for you. If you have something that you're proud of that was as a result of this partnership, we're going to be real loud about it." It's not small to me. The other part of it is getting comfortable with the fact that you're making an impact. And even in my emails, every 10 [00:18:00] emails, I'm always like, "You're making an impact. I promise." Doesn't matter how small it is. It matters to people and our client stories matter to people. This has happened a lot with my clients. A story will be up. I think one of yours recently. And it will really resonate with someone, and it will motivate them, and they'll feel seen. And I think that's the power of sharing those stories. It can feel so lonely in business if you're not like everybody else. And there's more of us out there who are, low-spoons, low energy, whatever term you use that's affirmative for you. Yeah, I think that's the biggest thing for me is don't make yourself small. You are making an impact, so let that be the thing that drives you to, I will never say don't just do something and push past the discomfort. But really reflect on what you're doing and know that you are making an impact, and other people should hear that story, including your future clients. And however you choose to share that will only benefit [00:19:00] you and your future clients.

Sara: I think part of the subtext here that's also really important, but asking for help as my kryptonite. So I try and do everything myself. This conversation is just reminding me that. A, we can't do everything ourselves because different people see different things in our work. And B, we can find people to work with who are compatible with how we work. so I think it is just important to say, when you do feel different than the business mainstream, work hard to find your people. You hit on something really important about the emotional component of the client stories. Talking about Thinkydoers, a lot of us stay stuck in the work or in our own brains or in the thought work piece of it. And I really struggle to get out of the teaching mode and into the emotional mode or the resonant mode with clients. And I think that's something you've developed a method to do really, really well. So if [00:20:00] we think a little bit about. how do these storytelling practices apply outside of the realm of client stories? Do you have any advice for folks who struggle with making that switch into storytelling, whether it's about their business or about the work they do as an employee?

Nailah: Yeah, I always start panicked when I have to talk about anything to do with me or anything in my storytelling. But then I sort of channel the person who needs to hear what I'm saying. I always say pick a format that works for you, whether that's a voice note, whether that's writing. I always go from the sense of, like, what did I need to hear? What do my people need to hear? And I go from there. With your book, it's about finding yourself as a strategist. And I think I would approach the doc or the voice note around what did you need to hear before you [00:21:00] were on this journey? Because it's probably really, really important to somebody. Feeling seen and recognized by people is so much part of client stories, but also part of storytelling and messaging. And not in the hard, copywriting formulas that are like, "I've been there too." Sharing your experience. And just leaning on what you needed to hear, what would have been helpful, and you hope that it resonates with people, but I know that it, in your case, it will. Approaching the blank cursor with the notion that, for now, you're talking to a best friend, or a version of yourself, let's say, who needs to hear what you're about to say, and then tweak accordingly. And I think that just settles my nerves a little bit more. Because you talk about being in teaching mode, and service mode, and I think that's a form of that. You're being this service to somebody who needs your support. And I think that makes it easier for me, personally, when I get super panicked. Because I always worry, too much LinkedIn. I always worry, like, "Is this like a corny LinkedIn post? Is this like a [00:22:00] gotcha Instagram post?" I get really caught up in the format. Figure out what your format is. If you're someone who loves to write a voice note, record that, there's some transcription technology you can use to get that in the text version. If you're a writer, do that. Riff with a partner or a peer if that's easier, and that's just how I get the storytelling started and then go from there.

Sara: So I don't know about you. I am the world's most shy person. So I love what I do. I believe in my work. My clients are incredible. I am still incredibly shy when it comes to talking to other people. So, Even with how intimate my relationships are with my clients, I feel weird asking them to tell their stories. Do you ever have days where you're feeling friction about getting on the line and talking to someone? And if you do, how do you manage that?

Nailah: I mean, I always struggled with like feeling like I'm [00:23:00] annoying poeple because I have a lot of avoidance initially when I was approaching my old clients. I like kind of created this narrative in my head that its like its annoying to be asked questions It must be so annoying for them to be approached. They probably didn't like the work anyway. It just went to spiral town. So, what I do and what I find helpful in the client stories perspective is I just like to be transparent about the whole process. That helps me, and it makes it easier because we're getting on the same page. I sent y'all almost like a welcome packet, what to expect, what the interview is going to be like, just to let people get their bearings. And if they have concerns, they can reach out beforehand. And I haven't had a lot of that, but you know, there's been one or two people who have said, "Ooh, I feel like I have to rehearse or I have to know everything." And I'm like, "This is just meant to be a very casual conversation." So I do have this moment to be like, "Well, I'm a small guy. I don't know, why would these people want to talk to me?" I just try to think about, again, [00:24:00] who am I trying to support? And there's somebody who probably really needs to learn about that story. I know that sounds really corny, but there's somebody who's gonna really resonate with that story. And I think of myself as more of a story shaper. Y'all bring the content, and I put it together. Which is that third way that all of our stories are intertwined. So, when I get really nervous or think, "Gosh, maybe they think I'm the most annoying woman alive." I remember that people have free will. They can decline to talk to me. And also, that they're probably eager to share their story too, and to talk to me and put their story out there, and have folks learn not just about their business, but their journey in life. Because, again, business can be lonely and I think even more lonely if you don't fit the sort of mold. I was in a redacted group, and I just remember feeling so alone because I wasn't the [00:25:00] archetype. I would basically be like, "No, I'm too tired to do that. I'm not doing a challenge. I don't have enough energy for that." It just was very alienating. So, I always think about,who can this help? Who is this in service to? How can I make sure that people have a good experience. I do have a coaching background, so I try to create that kind of braver space when we chat as well. And again, knowing your why is also really helpful. It's helpful to move forward. If you find it like quite dysregulating, I don't I say don't overdo it. It could just be finding a format that's more accessible to you. So some people use tools like VideoAsk, which is pre-recorded. So, you would pre-record your questions, and then the client would record, or write, or audio record their responses. So some of this is like tweaking a format that works for you too.

Sara: That actually gets me to my last substantive question. It's not just shyness, I struggle really hard with a phenomenon called rejection sensitivity that comes with [00:26:00] neurodivergence for a lot of us. if you struggle with rejection sensitivity, which isn't just about rejection, it is also about how we receive feedback and other messages from other people. So the obvious answer is: Find someone like you and hire them. But do you have any other tips for folks who are wired that way?

Nailah: Give yourself some grace. It's

scary to ask people, and I think it's ridiculous that people are like, "Well, just ask, just don't be scared." Like, oh, okay, never thought of that. It can be scary. It can be vulnerable, because typically, your project goes well, and you probably aren't going to get a lot of surprises. But if you, are experiencing or have this experience with rejection sensitivity, or you're just, I like to call it my "brain siren" — just starts. I like to think that she's my biggest op. She's telling me: "They hated you. Every email's a lie. It was the worst. They are going to trash you all of a sudden." And that's like an extreme of that. I know that's not everyone's experience, but [00:27:00] I just want to dispel the notion that you shouldn't be scared. Because for some of us, it's very vulnerable. And it's also hard to talk yourself out of thinking the worst with feedback for us. It can be scary. And I think like acknowledging that to some level helps or is at least a good starting point. And then two, you don't have to approach everyone. My process is a mix of right timing, right client, right story. I think that does take the pressure off. You don't have to ask every single person. But usually The cues of who to ask and who's right to ask, and therefore someone who's more likely to say yes, are around picking people who have given you feedback throughout the process. They're like positive the whole project. They haven't waited till the end to give commendations. And it could just be notes in a Google Doc, notes in an email. It doesn't necessarily have to be paragraph after paragraph of praise, although I'm sure all of you are lovely and you get that all the time. Which [00:28:00] isn't to say that you're stacking the cards to make sure that you absolutely get a positive review. But we want a generative one, right? We want someone that showcases our expertise and their genuine client experience. If you're nervous about potentially getting less-than-favorable feedback, I'm not going to be somebody who's like, "That won't happen." Because I don't know everything. But I do think lean into chatting with folks who despite your best efforts, that they are enjoying the experience and they want to share and they are rooting for you to continue to grow your business, and build your business. And I know all y'all are smart and amazing people. There's tons of those people. Again, it's not to say that if that didn't happen, you shouldn't approach a client, but I think it does take the pressure off. Start with people who you are confident that enjoyed their experience: A, and B: Have a lot to say about that experience. You don't have to check in with everyone. And you also don't have to be not scared if that's something that you feel.

Sara: I think one of [00:29:00] the things that you're hitting on is something that's so important. I hadn't thought about the words this way before listening to you, but for those of us who have some rejection sensitivity, it's important that we set ourselves up for success. And that's what you're describing is. Pick the people where you think you're more likely to succeed. You don't have to start in the deep end, and it's okay to be nervous. Which I think is just great life principles for folks that struggle with RSD.

Nailah: Yeah. And I just did a summit, and I was saying, you also don't always have to start from scratch. Go to somebody who gave you a testimonial. See what they said. Is there anything in that testimonial that you want to explore more? Is there anything that they're alluding to that you want to know more about?Approaching people you already approach may seem counterintuitive, but a testimonial, depending on how you do them, whether you do a form or however you structure that, is that start of that journey. Because you typically get a testimonial pretty soon [00:30:00] after a project ends, and that tends to be more about your work together, which obviously still has value, but it's less about your results. So, I always think you can even take off even more added pressure by just going to somebody you've already gone to for a smaller capacity. And start having a longer conversations about that experience. Because I'm sure they have plenty to say as well. There's still a possibility that they'll say, actually, that's it, that's all. But it's a starting point that I think to me feels more approachable and more accessible. And certainly to my clients, I'm like, "You've wrapped a project, now you're going to do it." If you're thinking about long term and you want to get started, well, go back a little. There might be some gems in there.

Sara: I think that helps reduce another one of my personal barriers. You've hit on that client stories don't have to just be testimonials right after the work finishes. What's actually juicy, and interesting and would resonate might happen independently of the actual hands-on work, long after. Now my wheels are turning [00:31:00] about which clients would make the most interesting and diverse client stories. One of the things that when I worked with you on the client story for Sarah Moon,you create such a warm, gentle space for people that you get on the line with. Is that on purpose, or can you tell me anything about how you do that for folks?

Nailah:I Coaching helped. So I took a coaching course. It's accredited. It's not by a phony, it's legit. And the purview of that is basically to not lead people. Don't follow the galloping hooves. I think that comes from a place of wanting a particular type of result. So I do build questions around the client's goals, but I also leave lots of space for us to talk about whatever comes up. And I know that's probably counterintuitive for other people to be like, why would you let a conversation spiral or like just go in directions that maybe they shouldn't? But I think that's where [00:32:00] a lot of really interesting insights lie. Is the tangents, the side stories, the asides. I will often watch y'all realize in real-time how much something meant to you that you had no idea mattered until we have that conversation. So part of it is, yes, I have this coaching background, which helps me (I hope) create braver spaces for y'all. And even before that, I do give a sort of packet that walks you through the process and gives you the opportunity to ask any questions. But I don't share questions really ahead of time. I fear that it makes folks nervous, and also that they have to give me a particular answer, which is stressful. If you think that I'm looking for some special answer, I'm not looking for some special answer. I'm looking for you to give me the answer that reflects your experience, because you're the boss on this call. I'm only timekeeping. You decide what matters to you, as you should. You're the client. I don't know why this is controversial. [00:33:00] But it would be great, I would love the power to say "I want to showcase one particular result and who cares what the client thinks." In theory, wouldn't that be so simple, but it doesn't work like that. So definitely coaching background, transparency around the process. Just having open conversations with folks really helps. And I also don't censor y'all. You can talk about whatever it is that comes to comes to mind. And it's up to me, because I am the writer, the story shaper, to decide what stays in and what doesn't stay in. And also, if you've divulged something that you have consented for me to know, but potentially not the client, and certainly not the public, I omit those. from the final product. So there's obviously privacy and, security around the conversations that we have. That's how I build each conversation. And it is longer than average than how other people do. I did have someone say, "90 minutes, that's so long." And I’m like, really? Because I be kiki-ing with people, and we always run over. We have a great time. And I like to think we have fun.

Sara: When [00:34:00] I was sitting down to talk to you as a client story subject, I was so nervous. I just wanted to talk about how awesome Sarah Moon is, which is easy to do. But it took me some time to get into the vibe of actually having the conversation instead of just trying to write a client story for Sarah Moon. And so your patience is really effective at helping people make that transition and settle in. But then you bring up such a good point that, you do a 90-minute interview and you wind up with a few minutes of a finished product of a client's story that's the absolute best parts. It's a really good reminder that we don't get our stories in one take, in a soundbite, like they start out as these long winding back-and-forths between two people, and then that's what uncovers the best bits. I just think the takeaway here is if you're someone like me who struggles with it, then find someone like you [00:35:00] to work with. Because by asking for help, I would wind up with a completely different client story than if I tried to do it myself.

Nailah: Yeah, I mean, you're a smart cookie. I think you can do anything. However, I think that's what I bring to the table. I always say, some people don't like this, that y'all are the storyteller. I'm the story shaper. I take that raw material and then I put that together and make sure that together we write something that's reflective of your experience. Because I don't want to tell a story that isn't your story. I also like to write things that people want to read and people want to share. Because I've also had people approach me to be like, I've had problems in the past of clients sharing this, and I'm like, interesting. I don't have that problem. I've never encountered that. But I'm also writing for the reader, I'm balancing things. I want it to represent your story and not feel manufactured to feel like it's a true story. I want to showcase the client's expertise, but also there's a readership that has to read this, right? I [00:36:00] know people think that a client story is more of a sales document, and it is. It's probably one of ten (minimum) pieces of content that people are reading before they make a decision. So, it better be interesting.

Sara: Is there anything else that you would want to offer in terms of advice or key takeaways for folks?

Nailah: The key takeaways are: you can find something that works for you. I know gathering insights can feel like a pain, and it can be a longer process. I personally take up to six weeks, assuming that the energy is there. Sometimes, I extend projects, which I'm very transparent about with all my clients. It can be something that takes a while, but it is worth it. Because you don't have to go back to the drawing board all the time, which is what I don't like about social media, which is a tirade for a different episode. But you are building a basis and a foundation to always share. Half the time I just send the direct link. But occasionally, when I'm feeling spicy,I will include different quotes [00:37:00] and other parts of itbroken up. So you're creating a longterm evergreen asset, that's what's important to remember. It's okay to feel a bit awkward about approaching clients, but you are making an impact with them, and they want to support you. Nine times out of ten that's the case. And I think in the 10th case where it's not, you probably know that already before going into that scenario. I think the people who didn't love something are quite visible, quite loud. Honor those feelings, but also acknowledge that people do want to support you. And three, it's about the client, and their experience, and their story matters, but also there's somebody who wants to work with you and they just need slightly more information. But they're also looking for someone who's a bit like them, maybe not fully. But who has similar experiences and has worked with you and that's going to tie everything together. So the TL;DR of this is, it's worth it, but I don't want you to feel like you have to push through just because I'm [00:38:00] a person who's an expert. It's never going to happen. I think honor your energetics, honor your process, honor the format. If it's accessible to you, hire someone. If not, there are ways to do this work are just easier. But you don't have to miss out, and you don't have to feel excluded. These stories are for us as well.

Sara: One of my most important key results for myself right now is to hear, I feel seen or variations on that theme from folks more. So we actually count it. that's a key result that we keep track of when we hear it. When I can finally pull the trigger on client stories, like that number is going to go up by like 10x, 20x, like it's going to be a big jump. I'm really excited.

If people want to learn more about you and your work, where can they find you?

Nailah: They can find me at my website, www.thecontentwitches.ca. I am most entertaining on Threads. I’m a ghost—a specter—on Instagram, but technically there. And I'm trying to get BlueSky going. I [00:39:00] kind of posted and ghosted. I'm so sorry. But I'm, trying. And LinkedIn, begrudgingly.

Sara: Yeah, it's the same for me. I'm trying so hard to get off of Threads and onto BlueSky, but man, that character count just kills me. It's not enough.

Thank you for joining and listening to this conversation with Nailah King about storytelling. I wanna thank Nailah for doing this episode with me. I've been really looking forward to it, and I wish I could have recorded all the way till we hung up because after we dropped the recording, we had a great conversation about. The power of long form storytelling for those of us who are wired differently compared to the blips of social media that sometimes just drain and distract us. But that's an episode for another time.If you wanna learn more about Nala and her work with client stories, you can find her at www.thecontentwitches.ca. She is also most entertaining on [00:40:00] threads, as she mentioned, and you can find her there. I'm gonna spell this one out at N A I L A H dot Z dot KING. So, nailah.z.king. Now, don't forget it is book launch month, so you can find all that information at youarestrategist.com. Thank you so much for all of your support and for listening today, and I'll see you next time.

Sara: All right, friends, That's it for today.

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