Overcoming Perfectionism With Self-Development Coaching

CareersTech and Tools

Apr 17

Written By Sara Lobkovich

You’re not “lazy.” You’re not unmotivated. You’re just stuck.

For high-achievers and deep thinkers, getting in your own way sometimes doesn’t look like “failure”—it looks like over-prepping, second-guessing, and quietly waiting for the “right time.” But what if the real obstacle isn’t a lack of clarity or confidence… it’s the silent stories you’ve been telling yourself?

In this episode of Thinkydoers, host Sara Lobkovich welcomes self-development and executive career coach Jessica Manca to discuss perfectionism, overthinking, and intrinsic motivation. Jessica shares her journey from management consultant to coach and offers practical tools for overcoming limiting beliefs. They explore professional coaching versus advising, the impact of negative self-talk, and how to shift from external to internal motivation. This conversation provides valuable insights for perfectionists and overthinkers looking to unlock their potential without getting stuck in their own way.

Episode Highlights:

Jessica’s journey from burnout in consulting to helping others unlock their potential
The difference between professional coaching and advising—and why it matters
Why high-achievers often struggle most with perfectionism and overthinking
The four types of “inner limits” that quietly sabotage your growth
How introverts and perfectionists can uncover the stories holding them back
Why fear of success (yes, success!) might be your biggest blocker
First steps to identifying your inner limits and moving past them with clarity
The power of shifting your self-talk and catching limiting language in action
Using micro-habits and mindset reframes to make meaningful progress
How to build self-motivation in a way that feels aligned—not forced

Key Concepts Explored:

Coaching vs. Consulting
- What ethical coaching looks like and how it differs from giving advice
- How professional coaching helps unlock intrinsic motivation and sustainable change
Inner Limits Framework
- Stories, excuses, limiting beliefs, and fears—and how they block momentum
- Why noticing your patterns is the first step toward breaking them
Language & Mindset Shifts
- The impact of phrases like “but” on your ability to move forward
- Reframing internal dialogue to create space for new possibilities
Self-Motivation for Thinkydoers
- Motivation as a form of resilience and buoyancy
- Building routines and language that support your energy, not drain it
Growth Through Self-Awareness
- How to work with your blind spots (instead of being led by them)
- Developing tools that support long-term confidence and clarity

Notable Quotes:

"I help perfectionists and introverts unlock their best self without overthinking. My superpower is really helping match people with the work that they do to the person that they want to be." - Jessica Manca (00:02:00)

""The language that you say to yourself and out loud, it reveals your beliefs, it reveals your values to some degree." - Jessica Manca (00:20:00)

"Those things that happen in your life that you think are terrible and horrible are actually huge gifts. In my career, I needed it to get that bad in order for me to wake up." - Jessica Manca (00:26:00)

Chapters:

00:00:00 – Introduction to Jessica Manca, self-development coach who helps perfectionists and introverts
00:03:00 – Jessica shares her journey from burned-out management consultant to coach
00:07:00 – The evolution of professional coaching from being viewed as disciplinary to partnership
00:10:00 – "You're truly partnering with somebody. It's not a hierarchical relationship." – Jessica on ICF coaching
00:13:00 – Jessica's three-column goal-setting approach: what you want, blockers, and results when blockers are removed
00:14:00 – The four inner limits that affect perfectionists: stories, excuses, limiting beliefs, and fears
00:17:00 – Mindfulness for busy brains – noticing patterns as the first critical step
00:19:00 – How language reveals mindset – our words show our beliefs and values
00:20:00 – The power of specific words – how a client's use of "but" was sabotaging his ideas
00:22:00 – Jessica's ebook Self-Motivation is Your New Superpower and the concept of “motivational buoyancy”
00:24:30 – Reframing setbacks as gifts – “Those things that happen in your life that you think are terrible and horrible are actually huge gifts”
00:25:30 – Jessica's resources at JessicaManca.com/thinkydoers
00:27:00 – Sara’s new book announcement: You Are a Strategist: Use No BS OKRs to Get Big Things Done

Guest Information:

Jessica Manca is a self-development coach, executive career coach, speaker, and author of "Finding Passion" who helps perfectionists and introverts unlock their best selves without overthinking. With a background as a former management consultant on the partner track, Jessica experienced burnout firsthand and discovered coaching as a path to personal transformation. She specializes in helping people align their work with the person they want to be, addressing limiting beliefs and negative self-talk patterns. Jessica is ICF certified and works toward helping clients develop the tools and resilience to continue growing beyond their coaching relationship.

Jessica’s Resources Mentioned:

Jessica's Website: JessicaManca.com
Free Download: JessicaManca.com/thinkydoers
Jessica's Book: Finding Passion
Jessica's Ebook: Self-Motivation is Your New Superpower

Sara’s Links and Resources:

Join Sara’s Email List: Get updates on OKRs, strategy, and workplace wellbeing and performance at ck.redcurrantco.com
Book Website: Now available! Learn more about You Are a Strategist at youareastrategist.com
Book launch squad: f indrc.co/launchsquad
Connect with Sara via LinkedIn, Bluesky, Threads, or Mastodon
Podcast Home Page: Thinkydoers Podcast

Find full show notes and the episode transcript via https://findrc.co/thinkydoers !

Full Episode Transcript:

Sara: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Thinkydoers podcast. Thinkydoers are those of us drawn to deep work, where thinking is working, but we don't stop there. We're compelled to move the work from insight to idea through the messy middle, to find courage and confidence to put our thoughts into action. I'm Sara Lobkovich, and I'm a Thinkydoer. Today I'm doing something we rarely do here on Thinkydoers, inviting a fellow coach onto the podcast. We typically feature mental health professionals and other kinds of deep subject matter experts. But when Jessica Manca and I connected, I knew her expertise on perfectionism, overthinking, and intrinsic motivation would resonate deeply with our listeners. Jessica is a self-development coach, an executive career coach, a speaker, and an author who helps perfectionists and introverts unlock their best selves without overthinking. Her approach to tackling [00:01:00] these internal stories and limiting beliefs that keep us stuck offer practical tools you can start using today. In this episode, we'll explore Jessica's journey from management consultant to coach, discuss what professional coaching actually is versus what a lot of people think it is, and we'll dive into some techniques and conversation about overcoming perfectionism and shifting your self-talk patterns to support your own growth. So let's get started with this episode.

Sara: Alright, friends, I am super excited to have Jessica Manca here today with me. Jessica is a coach. We never have coaches on the show. It's always other kinds of mental health professionals or subject matter experts. But when Jessica and I got on the phone, it was like an instant. "Oh my gosh, yes. You have to join me." And so I'll have Jessica introduce herself and then we'll dive in from there. So Jessica, tell our listeners a little bit about you and what you do.[00:02:00]

Jessica: Awesome. Thank you Sara, and the feeling is mutual. I'm so happy to be here and I'm really excited to be on Thinkydoers today. My name is Jessica Manca. I'm a self-development coach and executive career coach, a speaker, and an author of the book Finding Passion. I help perfectionist and introverts unlock their best self without overthinking. But my superpower in that is really helping match people with the work that they do to the person that they want to be. I'm just really excited to speak with you and to learn with you today in this podcast, so thanks for having me.

Sara: I'm always curious when I meet someone else who works on the career side of coaching, how did you come to do this work?

Jessica: The short version is, I was a former management consultant on the partner track, and I experienced this really intense period of time when I had my son, he's now 15, almost 16, so this was many years ago now. I was really [00:03:00] struggling with managing a demanding career in tech, where I'm sometimes the only woman in the room. It's very demanding work. We were working six or seven days a week sometimes, and it just wasn't sustainable with a 1-year-old. That was the logistics. But the story underneath that is that for some time, I was really burning out of the career. The career was no longer fitting me, and my confidence levels were like up and down every day. One day I'm having a great win and things are working really well. The next day, I'm feeling like an imposter. I don't want to be positioned to a client as a solution architect one more time, because that's not what I do. When I was burning out of my career and my performance really started to suffer, I was suffering mentally. I was suffering physically, I was stressed out like you wouldn't believe. I hired an external coach. We did the deep work in order for me to find the answers within me to figure out what I really wanted to do, and it [00:04:00] just unlocked so much for me personally.

Sara: I love that. Your personal experience with imposter feelings and I'm going to also guess perfectionism and overthinking, it's not like many of us wind up working in those disciplines without personal experience. I'm sure some people do, that must be fascinating, but I think it takes a lot of empathy and shared understanding to work with folks struggling with those things. It sounds like coaching played a big part in you making that shift from suffering to serving. Tell me a little bit more about that journey.

Jessica: I think I was curious about that aspect of what takes a high performer higher. Even within the firm at the time, I was a coach, and I'm going to use the air quote version, I was a "coach advisor" to people who were more junior to me. Very early on, I won a Coach of the Year Award. I was asked by my managing partner, "What are you doing that is making high performers go higher?" And I knew what it was. It was because I was [00:05:00] intrinsically motivated and curious about What it takes for somebody to be a consultant. It is already too late. There's not enough time, there's not the right resources, client's mad, the regulatory deadline's not going to move, like all these really big impossible things. It wasn't the technology solution that interested me. It was. The people who need to step up at that 11th hour and deliver it over the line. And so I knew it was something about people. And what's even crazier about this story is that when I hired my coach and she asked me, you know, all these deep questions about, what I already considered, and what had I think I was good at doing, and all these things. And I had this flash of a memory that I had actually asked that same managing partner — who was like, "How are you doing that?" — I asked him, "What happens if I feel like I have this capacity within me that's not being harnessed? What happens when we start teaching the client, helping them be better leaders and coaching them to be better leaders? [00:06:00] Forget the technology solution, but Just be better leaders, make better strategic decisions." And he's like, "Yeah, we don't do that." And I kind of knew the writing was on the wall. I'm saying this publicly, but he doesn't know this to this day — it's like it really changed me. That so much more that I have to give, he just confirmed that is not going to happen here. So I have to go someplace else to do that.

Sara: It is so funny how much is similar in our stories and how we got here. I'm just nodding along. I'm like, "Oh yeah, I remember that day. Oh yeah, I remember that too." I was not someone who decided to be a coach. Coaching found me. A similar situation — first coaching role was as an in-house coach. I was hired as an "in-house coach" somewhere without a coaching skillset, didn't know what that was, and decided, "If I was going to be called a coach, I'd better learn." And that was how I found my calling, very unexpectedly.

Jessica: Well, in corporate, this was 15 years ago, professional coaching, the [00:07:00] kind of that I do now with the International Coach Federation, which is a global standard for coachingworldwide. . it was really viewed as a disciplinary action. When you were getting assigned to a coach, you were underperforming. You were delinquent. You had a deficiency that needed to be retrofitted, and otherwise you're out. I knew I was going into something that was a little bit, maybe taboo. But through my own personal experience working with my coach, there was nothing taboo about it at all. It was me and my inner limits, and my limiting beliefs, and my fears, and my aspirations and ultimate future that we were working towards. And having somebody who is willing to partner with you on that is priceless. The potential is that you get to unlock these blind spots in yourself. And once I heard that, I was sold.

Sara: So one of the things you mentioned is ICF certification. You're ICF certified. I am a nationally board-certified health and wellness coach, so [00:08:00] that involves taking national boards. I am not an ICF member, but I adhere to the ICF ethics and operating —everything is aligned. Can you tell me a little bit about what the difference is working with someone who's ICF-aligned or certified or compliant versus working with someone who calls themself a coach but doesn't necessarily have that training and experience.

Jessica: Absolutely. The ICF definition is helping to partner with another individual on their personal and professional development in a way that helps them understand themselves and unlock their potential. I don't have the answers when I'm working with somebody. I don't have the Magic 8 Ball that says, "Oh, you've got this problem? Here's your solution." It's exact opposite of consulting that I was doing all those years. Consulting was like, "Here's my problem," And the consultant comes in and be like, "Okay, A, B, C. Which silver platter solution do you want from us?" It's the exact opposite. It's helping somebody understand the answers from [00:09:00] within. I really wanted to understand how personal change works and the cycles of that so that I could help somebody be better, but not just be better while we're working together, but after we're working together, to still have the tools and the resilience to be confident beyond. That, to me, was a success. There's a lot of value a person can get from either a professional ICF coach or another type of coach. There's value in both camps. But in ICF coaching, and certainly as I'm working towards my master certification in coaching, which is MCC level, you're truly partnering with somebody. It's not a hierarchical relationship. You are seeing eye to eye with your client. You're trying to, we call it, walk across the bridge of understanding to where they are. To be empathetic, to be gentle, to take care and pay attention to the things that they're saying and the things that they're not saying. And if you're working with a coach that's more of an advisor, then that you might experience more of that [00:10:00] hierarchy, which may be what you want. But for all the pieces that are intrinsic — confidence, knowing what you want in your life, how to work on your negative self-talk or how to work on your perfectionism, these are intrinsic things. And those, I find personally that. You need to self-discover the answers for yourself so that the change can last.

Sara: I think it's really important for coacheswho hold to an ethical standard to talk about. It's not that coaching that doesn't is bad, it's just that it's different tools. You used a word that I think is really valuable, which is advising. We as professional coaches, don't give advice. It's risky to give advice to a client. There might be situations in health coaching and probably in other kinds of coaching where you ask consent to give advice. "So I'm going to take off my coach hat for a second and put on my subject matter expert hat for a minute, if that's all right with you, if you want that." So I [00:11:00] really love that you gave an opportunity for us to share that. Because I don't think we've talked about that on Thinkydoers before, because I don't ever have coaches on.

Jessica: And the word coaching, right? It means like a sports coach, the coach who's yelling at the team to play harder, or go run faster. There's so many reasons why that term is muddy. When I describe it to somebody who's new to coaching, I say coaching is instant feedback. Coaching is helping you develop the tools for yourself and helping have an outside observer who's not connected, and not attached to the things that you're saying. We're trying to understand it at face value and say, "If that's what you want, then this piece seems to be contradictory. What do you hear?" And it's always about turning it back to the individual to say, "What do you, what did you hear yourself say?" If a client asks me like, "Well, what do you think, Jessica? I just want to hear what you think." And I'm like, "It doesn't matter what I think. What do you think? What do you want to do about that?"

Sara: One of the things that really cracks me up is when I'm in session with a client [00:12:00] and I am in active listening mode, and reflecting back to them what they're saying. So, a client's given an answer, and I say, "What I heard you say is..." and I use exactly the words they just said verbatim. And they're like, "Oh my gosh, that's such a good way to say it." And I'm like, "Yeah, that's what you just said."

Jessica: And, you know, the phrase that I tell myself, like my mantra when I'm coaching someone is, "I'm coaching the beautiful soul across from me, and that's all that matters."

Sara: Yeah. I love it. One of the things we do here is we get nitty-gritty. We want to offer practices and other things that aren't just theory. So if people are struggling with overthinking, perfectionism, recognizing their stories or their limiting beliefs and fears, where do you begin with clients?

Jessica: Yeah, great question. You just started to elaborate on those inner limits. I mean, I'm going to be really practical here. We start with the goal-setting workshop. And it's not like a typical goal-setting workshop where you have SMART goals or [00:13:00] OKRs, but it's a version of that. OKRs actually more closely matches to what I do. Which is a simple chart with three columns. A left column is what you want. The middle column is what's getting in your way — the blockers. And the right column is what happens when the blockers are removed. I grew up, I watched The Price is Right and it's like "Squeeze Play," where you pull out the number and everything comes together and that's the magic number of the car and they win. So it's like that, pull out the blockers, and everything squeezes together and they win. That middle column though is at the heart of what affects overthinkers and perfectionists, and sometimes introverts — is four things — one is stories that we tell, and these are stories that are on repeat. Your partner's heard it. Your colleague currently is hearing it. Your colleague from last job heard it. These are the stories that you have on repeat. "I'm always this type of person," "I do this," "I'm not a morning person." Whatever those lasting stories that you have about [00:14:00] yourself, those are repeat stories.

Sara: Hey listeners, Sara here with a quick note. In this next segment, Jessica's going to use a term that I don't usually use, which is the term "excuses" as part of her framework. Now this word is triggering or judgmental for some of us, especially those of us with ADHD or other forms of neurodivergence. Where we've often had very real challenges dismissed as making excuses, and that is not at all what we're talking about here. I'd actually really encourage you to listen to how Jessica frames the concept of excuses. She's using that term in a specific way to help us identify patterns that keep perfectionists stuck in avoidance cycles. Her explanation offers a helpful perspective shift that I'm going to carry with me, and that might actually give you more self-compassion, not less. Now, back to our [00:15:00] conversation.

Jessica: The next type of inner limit is excuses.From a perfectionist, it's usually point-in-time. "As soon as I complete this, then I'll be able to have that." You're always putting the thing that you want at arm's length. You're adding obstacles, you're adding conditions and criteria that are pushing what you want further out. The next one are those limiting beliefs. Most people know their limiting beliefs. They know to some degree that it's a combination of the stories and excuses as well. Where it's really formed into something that you believe. You believe you'll get hurt. You believe it'll be hard. You believe you can't have that. You believe you're not smart enough. And then the fourth type of inner limit is the fear. And with the people that I work with, yeah, fear of failure definitely comes up, but most often it's actually fear of unknown, fear of success. Those two are more prevalent. Fear of unknown to an overthinker is terrifying because you're in limbo. There [00:16:00] isn't ground to stand on. It's literally unknown. And then the fear of success is exactly expanding into your biggest self. What would that look like? What would that take? And it means addressing all of those. When I'm working with somebody, we start by getting real and I call things out in my clients, but I want them to call themselves out. "Hey, I know I'm doing this." And before too long, a session or two, they're starting a sentence and they're saying the word, "but," and then they go, "Wait, I shouldn't say it like that. What I mean to say is..." and now they've already started to catch themselves. So as soon as we can define those blockers and those inner limits, they start to dissipate. They start to minimize, and we can refer back to them and look at them. But they can see in black and white, wow, when I started working with you, I was worried about all this stuff, and now I'm not worried about those things anymore. Now those aren't my, blockers.

Sara: I'm sure that some people who are listening right now have a quiet and still meditation practice, but I love that [00:17:00] what you're talking about is mindfulness for people with busy brains. The first step is noticing, and that is as valuable as sitting still and meditating — is working on cultivating the ability to notice your stories.

Jessica: Yeah, I completely agree with you. You can't improve on your blind spots because you, honestly are not aware, and even others may not be aware of them. And I put them in that order for a reason. SELF, stories, excuses, limiting beliefs and fears. These are the parts of yourself that are no longer serving you

Sara: You just brought it home to say it isn't just about what you're trying to achieve in terms of the external world. I love that you started with starting with what you want. Because I think that's the piece that even when clients come into coaching, they're not always aware that's where we're going to work — is with what do you want? It's not just about the behavior or the achievement or the goal that you're seeking. It is that skillset of tying back [00:18:00] to what you want, that I think some clients find really surprising and challenging.

Jessica: Yeah, exactly. And I've always, been kind of an achiever type, and it's working in that long view and working in the short term at the same time. And when I think about doing the Inner limits work, which I still work on with my coach as well, there's still other layers of that for us individually. Even if you think you've got it all figured out or you're mastering your domain there, you're going to have situations in life that are going to be new moments for you. You've never been there before. Or maybe you've never been there with your kids before, or you've never been 50 and doing that before, whatever it is. Coaching and these strategies or these kind of self-understanding, self-development work that we do, it's really to help you have new tools to meet the moment.

Sara: So when we talked the first time, we talked about some of the mindset work that you support. When you're working with someone to try and make that shift, where do you recommend folks start?

Jessica: An [00:19:00] obvious place to start is the language. Because the language that you say to yourself and out loud, it reveals your beliefs, it reveals your values to some degree. A great example would be the traditional New Year's resolution, that they want to lose 20 pounds and get the gym membership and buy the new Nikes and get the hot new yoga clothes or whatever, but they don't believe inside that going to a gym is going to work for them. That is misalignment. That one belief and that one story in those few words is going to disrupt any positive habit that they could form around getting healthy and getting fit and going to that gym. So the language to me is one of the most obvious indicators, and we can record, a coaching session with a client and we can have them play it back. The homework is, listen to that back, listen to how it sounded. Share next time what you learned about that. I had one client, instead of, the four-letter word is a bad [00:20:00] thing, he said, it's my three-letter word that is so bad. And it was but. Every time he would say an idea, he would say this, but here's why it can't work. So he would dream up this idea like Jack in the Beanstalk, a little seed and little stalk sprouting from his hand. As soon as he would say the word but it would all come back down and crumble and go away. And we worked on that one word, but, and he started to catch himself and he started to change his mindset because the outlook was negative as soon as but happened. That was like the activation word. It was a negative mindset from there on, and it would only stay negative. My tip for where to start is watching your language.

Sara: Yeah, that's really helpful. The story that brought back is actually one of my pivotal moments in coach training, I was working with an instructor who talked about people who want to increase their consistency of working out. He is like, if we set a goal to work out more, then our [00:21:00] all or nothing and self-judgment kicks in and demand avoidance can kick in. And he's how about you set a goal to go to the gym more often. And that might some days mean going to the gym and working out, and other days that might mean putting on your sneakers and getting in the car and driving to the gym and then laying the seat back and taking a nap and then driving home. I mean, it's just so cool to see the ways that we can reframe thinking instead of just repeating the same thinking habits.

Jessica: Yes. And when you talk about repeating the same habits, so when we're stuck, we're in a pattern of those limiting beliefs and those inner limits just circling the drain again and again. Sometimes we have to break our own pattern and we take a new step forward, and those new steps are success habits. Those new steps are micro habits even, or new words that we say, and then [00:22:00] suddenly we're doing the things that we need to do to close the gap to where we want to go.

Sara: One other thing I wanted to ask about is your ebook. So you have an ebook called Self-Motivation is Your New Superpower. Tell us about your ebook and who that's for and why someone might check it out.

Jessica: Thank you for knowing that. My ebook is my lesser-known book. I have a book called Finding Passion, which is helping people navigate the crossroads. My ebook was a complete function of the pandemic. I saw so many people who struggled on how to be self-motivated. Andthere was something in me that said, I know something about motivation, and I believe that there's going to be a lot of people that, once the pandemic really continues to unravel, are really going to struggle with working from home and being disconnected from that network and that kind of forcing function that makes you go and makes you keep working. It's just you at your computer alone. Now, how do you stay self-motivated? [00:23:00] And that was my desire to write a book that would help people during the pandemic.

Sara: I am motivation-obsessed. If I could go back and study something, it would be motivation science, and that self-motivation component, that is one of the other things that I just observe over and over. People were so used to handing our agency and motivation over to others and authority figures and external forces, and it's really exciting in the work that I do to see people realize that they can bring that back to intrinsic motivation and self-motivation.

Jessica: And when I was in Seattle, we were very fortunate to have lived on a houseboat or a floating home in Lake Union. And so I thought a lot about buoyancy. So I put that into my book, and I called it motivational buoyancy, which is, do you have enough motivation? Do you have enough supports going on for you right now that are keeping you buoyant even when the waters are getting [00:24:00] rough? Even when you're working in things that you've never done before. And so that was one of the basic, the key takeaways in that book.

Sara: Oh, that's so cool. What have I not asked you that I should have?

Jessica: We talked about mindset, and the opposite of having a growth or learning or abundance mindset is having a judgment mindset or negative mindset. And a lot of people will do that black-and-white thinking thing, and they'll have one bad moment, one setback in their life, and they'll say, I'm on the wrong path. And I was that person when I had my career set back. I can honestly say, if you just look down beneath your feet, you're on the exact path you're meant to be on, and those things that happen in your life that you think are terrible and horrible are actually huge gifts. In my career, I needed it to get that bad in order for me to wake up. I'm so grateful. If things had just been so, even-keeled, I'd probably still be there being miserable and working my way to the top. I just can't even imagine. It's just so bizarre to me [00:25:00] to even think. It needed to get really bad for me to listen to myself.

Sara: All right. Jessica, this has been so much fun. Thank you so much for joining me. Tell my listeners about your book and about where they can find you if they want more information.

Jessica: Yeah, absolutely. I've really enjoyed the learning today. It's been awesome. If anyone listening would like to learn more and do the deep work or get out of their own way, I do have a download that accompanies today. You can find it on my website, which is JessicaManca.com/thinkydoers. So check it out, and you can download that for free. And there's a lot more there on the website too. In a few weeks, I'll be hosting a workshop on, imposter syndrome, which is coming up. So you can check that out on my website as well. And you can find me on socials, mostly on LinkedIn, is where I live. And I just want to thank you for the space that you're creating here in this podcast to really give voice to [00:26:00] people who don't always have a lot of space for this kind of talk. They do it a lot in their head, but having it out and raising more awareness around the resources that different types of thinkers need, I just think is so powerful and I just absolutely support you. So, happy to be here and happy to, have been on your show.

Sara: Well, Jessica, thank you so much. It's been wonderful to speak with you today, and yes, I look forward to our follow-up.

Jessica: Yes. Thank you Sara, and congrats on your recent ebook. I'm so happy every time I see that come through. I'm just so thrilled for you and all your success.

Sara: I want to thank Jessica Manka for joining us today and sharing her insights on perfectionism, overthinking, and the power of shifting our self-talk. Now, she and I had a long and very interesting conversation, so we had to make some entire question and answer cuts. So, this is not the last time you're going to hear from Jessica. I'm going to share some more from our conversation as shorts in the weeks and months to come. [00:27:00] So the excitement around here is that my new book, You Are a Strategist: Use No BS OKRs to Get Big Things Done is now live. We had a really unexpectedly strong ebook launch, and the book is now available on Amazon, Kobo, Apple Books, and Google Play with more to follow. I just want to say a huge thank you for all the support around the book. This has been an enormous project. It has not been a solo project, and it never would've happened alone. So a big thank you to my book team and to Ellie and to our beta readers and to everyone who has been a part of not letting me give up on this book project. I just want to say a really sincere thank you. And don't forget, if you haven't gotten your ebook copy of You Are a Strategist: Use No BS OKRs to Get Big Things Done, find it wherever you read eBooks. And if it isn't there, let me know, and I'll see if I can get it added. Thanks all.

Sara: All right, friends, That's it for today.

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