Building Inclusive Communities: Finding Connection Without Social Anxiety
In a world that celebrates the loudest voices and the biggest followings, what if quiet spaces are where real belonging begins?
In this deeply personal and connected conversation, Sara Lobkovich sits down with community strategist Carrie Melissa Jones to explore the surprising power of “quiet communities” — where introverts, neurodivergent folks, and the socially anxious can finally feel seen, heard, and safe.
If you’ve ever felt like community just isn’t for you… this episode might just change everything.
Episode Highlights:
Carrie’s journey with social anxiety and building inclusive, "quiet" communities
Belonging without active participation—research and real-life insights
Using bodily awareness and boundaries to stay grounded as a community creator
Self-leadership and support systems to prevent burnout in community work
Practical tips for both hosts and participants to feel more confident and aligned
Key Concepts Explored:
Self-Regulation in Online Spaces: How digital communities offer spaces for thoughtful connection for introverts and neurodivergent people.
Quiet Communities: Community spaces that don't demand constant engagement and allow people to participate on their own terms.
Meaningful Engagement vs. Engagement for Engagement's Sake: The importance of connecting community activities to purpose and growth rather than arbitrary metrics.
Body Awareness as Community Evaluation: Using physical reactions and feelings as guidance for whether a community is a good fit.
Belonging Without Participation: Research findings on how affiliation alone can create a sense of belonging without requiring active involvement.
Self-Leadership in Community Building: Managing internal dialogues and anxieties that arise when creating and managing communities.
Community as Healing Practice: How creating spaces for others can help heal our own relationship to connection.
Distributed Leadership: Inviting others' contributions rather than trying to do everything yourself.
Community Building as a Long Game: The importance of patience and persistence in both building and participating in communities.
Notable Quotes:
"If there's a place that you wish existed... why not be the person that starts that?"
— Carrie Melissa Jones [00:13:00]
"You cannot do it alone. It's not a solo activity. To really create a community, you've got to see, recognize, and invite in the gifts of others and others' contributions."
— Carrie Melissa Jones [00:42:54]
I start everything I do scared and then once you get rolling it gets fun. Nothing starts fun. Everything starts with anxiety.
— Sara Lobkovich [00:46:45]
Chapters:
[00:00:00] Introduction and Meet Carrie Melissa Jones
[00:05:51] Social Anxiety and Career: Turning Challenges into Expertise
[00:11:22] Redefining Community: "Quiet Communities" and Meaningful Engagement
[00:15:38] Challenging the "Not a Joiner" Identity and Finding Your Fit
[00:19:53] Body Awareness: Using Physical Responses as Your Community Guide
[00:25:32] Advice for Shy Community Creators: Boundaries and Sustainability
[00:29:42] Research Insights: Belonging Without Active Participation
[00:39:03] Self-Leadership and Distributed Responsibility in Community Building
[00:44:30] Practical Pre-Launch Strategies and "Doing It Scared"
[00:48:10] The Long Game: Advice for Participants, Hosts, and Closing Thoughts
Upcoming Events:
Q3 Strategic Achievement Intensive is now waitlisting!
Join the no B.S. approach to goal-getting with Sara: saralobkovich.com/nobs-strategic-achievement-intensiveCatch Sara at the World OKR Summit! She’ll be speaking this October 30–31: okrsummit.org
Book Launch:
"You Are a Strategist: Use No-BS OKRs to Get Big Things Done" is now available in print (hardback and softback). Get the ebook today wherever you buy books.
Carrie’s Links and Resources:
Website: carriemissajones.com
Book: "Building Brand Communities" co-authored with Charles Vogel
Instagram: @CarrieMelissaJones
LinkedIn: Carrie Melissa Jones
CMJ Community: Professional community for community builders (find details on Carrie's website)
Sara’s Links and Resources:
Email: sara@thinkydoers.com
Website: thinkydoers.com
Podcast: Thinkydoers Podcast (available on all major platforms)
Social Media: Sara Lobkovich (across platforms)
Newsletter: Subscribe at findrc.co/newsletter
Find full show notes and the episode transcript via https://findrc.co/thinkydoers !
Full Episode Transcript:
Sara: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Thinkydoers podcast. Thinkydoers are those of us drawn to deep work where thinking is working — but we don't stop there. We're compelled to move the work from insight to idea, through the messy middle, to find courage and confidence to put our thoughts into action.
I'm your host, Sara Lobkovich. I'm a strategy coach, a huge goal-setting and attainment nerd, and board-certified health and wellness coach, working at the overlap of work, life well-being. I'm also a Thinkydoer. I'm here to help others find more satisfaction, less frustration, less friction, and more flow in our work.
My mission is to help changemakers like you transform our workplaces and world. So let's get started
Sara: Friends, this is years in the making, maybe decades, if you count all the life experience that adds up to what wound up in these books. But I am so excited to share with you that "You Are a Strategist: Use No-BS OKRs to Get Big Things Done" is now in print. Booklife Reviews, calls it "a smart practical guide for establishing an implementing organizational strategy," and they designated it an Editor's Pick. Reviewer Kristy Morrison says what truly resonated with her was the attention to the [00:01:00] human side of strategy: "Acknowledging that not everyone thrives in traditional business environments, offering guidance for introverts, neurodivergent professionals, and anyone who feels like they don't quite fit the standard mold." Kristi says, if you want to drive meaningful change in your org, this book delivers. Adding to the previous ebook release, the book is now available in print, in hardcover from Amazon.com and other major retailers, including my preferred retail provider, Bookshop.org, and my personal favorite ebook provider, Kobo. As a listener of this podcast, I wrote this book for you. I can't wait to hear what you think of it. And your honest reviews, with retailers and with book sites like Goodreads Bookwyrm, and The StoryGraph, help other people who might need this book find it. Thank you for all of your support, and I can't wait to hear what you think.
Sara: Hello, friends. Today I am very excited to [00:02:00] bring you a conversation with Carrie Melissa Jones, community strategist, author and founder of the CMJ Community. What makes this episode especially intriguing is that Carrie has built her career around creating spaces for connection and community, while also navigating her own social anxiety. If you've ever felt that community spaces aren't for you because you're introverted, shy, neurodivergent, or just sensitive, this episode might change your perspective. We will explore what makes communities safe and accessible for different thinking and sensory styles, the power of quiet communities, and how belonging can happen even without active participation. Carrie will also share practical advice for both community participants and those considering building their own communities. So whether you are a self-proclaimed lone wolf like me or someone wrestling with how to create connection on your own terms, this conversation offers insights that just might surprise you. Let's get [00:03:00] started.
Sara: All right. I am super excited to have Carrie Melissa Jones here with me today. Carrie and I met through Jamar Diggs' Low Lift Club. What we're gonna be talking about today is community and community building, in the context of being a Thinkydoer, maybe someone who isn't necessarily wired for networking and connection. I participated in her community and was so impressed [00:04:00] with your rigor. I know how busy you are, and I'm super excited to have you here today. So go ahead and tell people who you are and what you do.
Carrie: I'm so excited to be having this conversation. When you explained who a Thinkydoer is, I was like, yes, that's me. I am Carrie Melissa Jones. I am the co-author of the book, right over my shoulder, Building Brand Communities with Charles Vogl. And I'm a community strategist, community builder, and researcher of belonging and connection, and what that means, especially what it means on the internet, as confusing as that maybe. I help people all day long connect both online and offline.
Sara: That right there is a perfect opening, because so many of us who are introverted or neurodivergent or sensitive or autistic, have different sensory needs, wind up doing so much of our connecting online. I just did naturally, and then now knowing what I do about my wiring, it makes [00:05:00] perfect sense, because I can regulate myself with people online, compared to all those motor neurons firing when we're in person and everything that comes into play. But I'd love to hear, how did you start doing this work?
Carrie: Yeah. What you just shared is pretty much much me to a T, especially as teenager. I did not have the language then for why my social anxiety was as high as it was. I just knew that I felt like I literally could not use my voice sometimes. Like, I was too afraid to speak, because everything was just happening around me. And so, yes, exactly like you mentioned, I discovered online forums, this is pre-Facebook, pre-MySpace, all that. And I discovered that there were places where people were connecting around all kinds of topics, from motorcycles to music, that was my big thing. And you could meet people from all over the world and I did not know this at the time, but it was absolutely for me about self-regulation and being able to take in what people were saying and process [00:06:00] it, and then think, okay, what is my thoughtful contribution to this? And/or what do I feel safe sharing in this space that I can't share anywhere else? I didn't realize that doing that as a teenager was gonna open up my career, but it did. And then I got into doing this professionally. I used to work mostly in tech, also in publishing. And there were all kinds of folks who, for the first time, we're trying to do work on the internet at the same time and needed a steward, needed someone to help them to connect and do their work more effectively. And so I discovered that this job title of "community manager" existed. And then when I discovered that, I was like, this is my life's work. I just decided one day, this is what I want to do. And I've been doing it ever since. Went to grad school to study it, all that stuff. So yeah, I'm just a huge nerd about this topic.
That's so awesome. It's wild to meet other folks who've been at it that long. know there are a lot of us, but you just look so young to be as old as I am.
Sara: So tell me a little bit more, you mentioned social [00:07:00] anxiety, if you're comfortable talking about that, I'd love for you to share a bit. I think there's so much overlap between different neurodivergences and anxiety and other mental health issues, and social anxiety. So me a little bit more about how social anxiety has affected you and your career and the choice to do this for work.
Carrie: I feel like until I was probably in my mid-twenties, I contorted my entire career around my social anxiety. What were the ways in which I could avoid social interaction? Even though I'm very socially anxious, I'm also very driven. It's like, how can I still advance in my career, was the question I was holding — but without having to do the scary things like get up on stage and talk and host meetup events where I bring together strangers and things like that. Actually, one of the seminal moments of my life was I went and I lived in New Zealand for a year, and I lived on farms. And I worked on farms and met people from all over the world. And I was forced, through [00:08:00] exposure, essentially exposure therapy, just over and over again. Carrie, you're gonna have to have conversations with people who maybe, like, for whom English is not their first language, and you're gonna have to really zone in on how to connect with folks from all over the world. And so that opened that up for me, and I realized that it was a skill that I developed, opening up to people and getting them to open up to me. And so, I started to open up this possibility that my career did not have to mean me hiding for my entire career. But a lot of my early career was behind the scenes, behind the curtain, not sharing a lot of myself. I've just, over many years, step by step, have opened up more and more. I try now not to let my career be designed by avoidance of social interaction. I'm more just aware of it. And then when I choose to, then I can challenge myself with an opportunity to get out of my comfort zone.
Sara: This is gonna be one of those episodes where we're just, like, totally twinning the whole time.
Carrie: Yes, please.
Sara: So, some people might be surprised [00:09:00] to hear someone who wrestles with social anxiety chose community as a career. Tell me a bit about what community means to you, and a little bit more about how this wound up what you do, despite your social anxiety.
Carrie: So what community means to me is a group of people who care about one another's, welfare, who actually care about one another beyond just making a sale or finishing a transaction of some sort. And they say that we create the things that we most need to heal within ourselves, and I think that's 100% what I have done. I have been very afraid of connection, and so that's something that's needed to heal within me. And so now, I consider a lot of my life's work is: how do we create spaces in which it is safer to have the courage to connect with other people? For me, it's about navigating and working with the challenges that I've always had, and then I now have a deep level of empathy for anyone who's feeling that, and now I can [00:10:00] design for those folks and to make sure that they feel included and make sure that if they would like to, there's an invitation to them to deepen, or they can stay in the background and just watch, because that's okay too. Those are all things that are very important to me. And growing up, I always saw community as being like, it's the loudest people in the room. It's people who have no fear of speaking up around a big conference table. Now, that's not what it means to me at all. It's what happens in the quiet moments, in the small interactions, in the constant showing up.
Sara: One of the things I loved about your community versus other online communities I've been in is just how calm. It's not pressure to do anything or to engage in any certain way. So you have really cultivated that skillset for creating places that do feel safer or like people can engage in the way that fits them. How did you develop those practices?
Carrie: Yeah, it's a combination of what I've developed over many years through my empathy, but also through research that I've done and [00:11:00] research that I've read about social anxiety and communication apprehension and things like that. What you're referring to is like what we call a quiet community, and that's not for everybody. Some people wanna be surrounded by noise and liveliness all the time. But it's been a really conscious decision for us to say: actually, we want you to come here when. You feel like you are ready to receive support, and we don't want you coming here just because we have pinged you or sent you an email or reminded you for the 15th time, There's a certain amount of that we must do in order to ensure that people are aware of all the benefits of being a member, but we're never creating engagement for engagement's sake. I always steer folks clear of that. Any kind of engagement you're trying to create in your community, it needs to be meaningful engagement, which means it needs to connect people to one of two things, other people who are going to help them on their journey, or to their purpose. Why did I join this in the first place, and how is this engagement I'm now being invited into helping me make progress toward that purpose?
Sara: So if [00:12:00] you think about two different constituencies, the people who think that community is not for them because they're shy or introverted or socially anxious, what would you say to folks like that, either to challenge that belief or to help them see things differently about community and connection?
Carrie: A lot of people just say, "I'm not a joiner. I don't join things." And they, I think they tend to over-identify with that as part of their identity. Like, "I'm just not a person that joins things." I would challenge anyone who thinks "I can't join an organization or join a community that I want to be part of because X, Y, and Z reasons" — I would challenge anyone who's kind of having that knee-jerk reactionto ask themselves: maybe I'm not someone who joins a lot of things, but is this something that's gonna help me grow in a way that would, it might sound kind of cheesy, but grow in a way that I would be proud of? And that doesn't mean you have to join 15 things. Join one thing that could be life-changing. To join one community in which you decide to contribute and commit. The other thing is that, yeah, I will just confirm that not all communities are made equal. Someone created them [00:13:00] because they heard from somebody else that they should start one. And it's not like that deep drive to create something that do didn't exist in the world before. So yeah, there's a lot of bad communities out there that are probably not worth your time. But if you can be choosy about it and careful about it and deliberate about it, there's a community out there. And if it does not exist, then you can create it. if there's a place that you wish existed, why not be the person that starts that?
Sara: I am so much not a joiner that I don't even identify as not a joiner, I identify as a lone wolf. Like, firmly in the individual context. But I spent last week with a client, with their whole organization for their annual offsite. And then I went right from there to Atlanta for one of our MotoAmerica race rounds, and we had a full team this time. It's the most people we've ever managed for a one-bike program with our team. And I had, I wouldn't say loneliness, I felt alone [00:14:00] after leaving those physical spaces with groups of people where I felt belonging. I've been here all by myself. And I was shocked. I love being by myself. But I love that belonging is one of the elements that you center also, because a lot of us, especially with neurodivergence or social anxiety, spend so much time masking that then we might not be putting our feelings or needs of belonging first, because we're trying to figure out everybody else's needs. So, you mentioned safety in communities. For us, my listeners,this kind of cognitive and personality and sensory style, who is attracted to this podcast: how might people tell safe or unsafe, or more belonging versus less a fit kind of community from each other? Is there anything that you would tell people to watch for?
Carrie: Yeah. a couple things, and I'll caveat all of this with: belonging is in the eye of the beholder. So what works for one person [00:15:00] might not work for another. and I can even go back to my own statement about communities being bad. Well, who gets to determine that? I'm not the ultimate arbiter of a good and bad community. But I think the most important thing to do when entering into any community, including an online one, is to check your own body and your responses to what's happening. So in a lot of communities, you'll join and then you'll just be like, dropped into a space. And then you're trying to look around and you feel really disoriented. That can be in a physical room that you're in, where you're like, "Where do I go next?" Like, I just put my name tag on, but now I have no idea where to sit. I usually will just gravitate toward any kind of food at that point. Just, "Okay, where's the food?" Or even in an online community, you're like, "Okay, well now which section do I go to and how do I make friends here?" So just being really aware of what's going on and what might have been designed either intentionally or not intentionally. And going where you feel calm I think is really important. If I feel anxious in a space and I can't find a way to regulate myself unless I [00:16:00] leave it, that's the information that I need to know if I should continue to show up or not. There's lots to uncover underneath that, but I think that's the most important piece is just being aware of your own body's reactions to the communities you're part of.
Sara: One of the patterns I notice in myself is I get so hyped up and anxious about, especially group events and things like that where I don't know, people or unfamiliar kind of gatherings, that my interoceptors or my body awareness is not good to begin with. And so then it just goes right out the window. So that is a really good reminder that there are some tools in my toolkit for checking back in with myself when I have that. I went to a YouTube creator event a few weeks ago here in Seattle where I didn't know anybody, except one, my former hairstylist was, and my social skills are very rusty post pandemic. They definitely eroded during the pandemic because I wasn't forced to do group gatherings and be in person. But the funny thing about that event [00:17:00] was I just named. it. I just was like, "Yeah, I'm really shy. I'm a super big introvert. You all do cool stuff on YouTube. I talk about goal setting." And just like, instead of trying to be confident or whatever we're supposed to be in those situations, I just named it. And every single person I talked to said, "Oh, I'm an introvert too."
Carrie: Yeah.
Sara: So it's all out there pretending extroverted in social gatherings when we could just be ourselves. And then again, like, that's how we find that belonging is by being ourselves, letting that show. So, let's switch gears and talk about people who have created communities or who do actively aspire to create communities. What would you say to shy or socially. anxious folkswho decide they want to take on community creation? Do you have any recommended places to start?
Carrie: I've written a book about it. So I would say check out Building Brand Communities.
Sara: And your community?
Carrie: And my community, the CMJ Community, where we share the frameworks around [00:18:00] community building and instead of just saying, "Okay, I think I'm gonna build a community. Now I'm gonna go build it," we have a structure and a process to help you to step back and think really deeply before you do create it. And say, "Who do I want to gather? What do they have in common? What needs to be special about this space that I can't find anywhere else? And what else might already be out there also that I might be able to lean on, partner with, whatever else." So that's a big resource. But the one thing that I see happening over and over again with a lot of creators and entrepreneurs who start communities is they think, "Oh, I started a community. Now I have to be available 24/7.". Speaking of myself, I can dissociate really easily, especially if I'm online for too long. As someone with social anxiety, I need to know that. I don't have to give everything of myself and more to run a community. And so I tell this to our clients all the time, is just you get to decide. If this community only meets live once a quarter, hey, guess what? You get to decide I had a client recently say, " I'm gonna give up every Saturday for the next six [00:19:00] months to do office hours with my community." And I asked her, I was like, "Is that what you really wanna be doing every Saturday morning for the next six months?" She's like,"No, but that's like the only time people can meet." And I said, "Well, that doesn't sound a time like when you should be meeting. You know, if that's not bringing you energy, maybe once a month you do that." And she's like, "Wait, so I don't have to be available all the time?"No, you pick the rules. That's the great thing about running the community, is you get to create the world that you wish existed, even if it's just like one little, tiny world. That's your little tiny world that you get to set the rules for. And sure, like in collaboration with and in connection with others, you don't have to give everything of yourself, and then more than that.
Sara: So I am a professional community manager going back as long as you. Large brand community management in the very early internet days through till about 2010, 2011. And I learned more in 30 days in your community about setting up a community for success, on community management and creating safety and belonging, than in my [00:20:00] entire career of community management. I ultimately decided that managing a community was not for me while I was putting the book together. And and so it was the best thing ever because I could see it well done. And see, "This is not right thing for me right now. It will be sometime." But it was just so cool to see it done so well and learn so much just from a month or two in your community. I'm really careful about recommending communities and spaces, especially online communities, because they can be so challenging and sometimes hurtful, sometimes harmful. But yours is one that I can just unqualifiably recommend.
Carrie: Oh, thank you.
Sara: I'm thinking about like your research brain and what you've learned technically about community. Is there anything that you think would surprise people in the research?
Carrie: there's so much, actually, I don't know where to begin. And I say that because so much of the [00:21:00] conventional wisdom or what we think is true about being in connection with others is wrong. And if that weren't the case, if it were the case that our conventional wisdom about connection was spot on 100% of the time, then we would not be living in the loneliest era of American history, and world history in many cases. And we wouldn't be living in one of the most disconnected times in at least American history. I don't wanna speak on behalf of other cultures. So much of what we think about community is just not what the neuroscience has to say about it. It's not what the social psychology has to say about it. We just did some primary research as a team, and we just found that this very large organization, they have a community that feels an extremely high sense of belonging. We actually ran a surveying project with them, very high belonging across the organization, with a couple of segments that disagreed, that they did not feel a sense of belonging. But what we learned is that they didn't necessarily always say that, "Because I feel a sense of belonging, "I want to participate more," or, "I want to participate more because I have a sense of belonging." They're actually saying, " I [00:22:00] feel a sense of belonging because by affiliating with this organization and showing up in whatever way I can, that one, it's accepted and there's no judgment about my participation, and two, I feel able to deepen more into my identity and values around this thing, around the community's topic. And that, in and of itself, is important to me." This goes back to our concept of a quiet community and why that's so important. A quiet community is actually saying, "You don't have to do anything differently or be anything different than who you already are and what you're already doing in order to be accepted here." Simply joining an organization and just being an observer of it. I think you can still feel a sense of belonging there. And especially like, my social needs are not that high for myself personally. Like, I also love to spend time alone. I have a handful of very close friends, and if I only ever saw them for like months at a time, I'd be okay. My spouse is the t otal opposite, and if he doesn't have like his bar nights out with strangers, he he goes a little haywire. Being part of a community does not mean [00:23:00] having to contribute everything. It just means saying, " Hey, this is important to me, and I'm gonna bring it in as part of my life." That doesn't mean I have to practice every part of it.
Sara: That is so interesting to hear about the power just of affiliation and like connection, even without participation. It's been really huge for how I feel in terms of taking up space and being fully present and being more myself and less. It's weird to say "closeted" be cause I don't have any of the disadvantages, but it's been really huge just in my self-concept. I feel more like myself to have those places of connection. So that's wild. To hear you talk about that.
Carrie: Yeah. It's so important. There's research on, this is common knowledge at this point, but there's mass distrust of all kinds of organizations, from small community organizations to obviously for-profit enterprises and everything else. So the need to affiliate is very strong, and yet the distrust of affiliation with different organizations is so high. It's [00:24:00] really important and interesting to be in this time that we're in and be very choosy about who we affiliate, um, and what they're doing to create that sense of belonging for you.
Sara: But tell us a little bit about what folks can expect in your book. What are they gonna learn and find there?
Carrie: Yeah, so it's really a guidebook. It's written for organizations and organizational leaders, how any organization can thoughtfully invest in relationships with people important to them. So that's often called community, but it doesn't have to be called community. In my work since publishing the book in 2020, we have worked with nonprofits, we worked with spiritual organizations, we worked with schools, any kind of organization that's trying to bring people together that matter to them. And it goes through the most important principles and frameworks to understand to do it really thoughtfully and strategically.
We've covered a lot of ground. Is there anything that you wanna share that I haven't brought up yet?
If anything, I would just say that, especially for folks who might be listening who are thinking about building communities, [00:25:00] we don't often talk about the importance of the ongoing self-leadership that is important in running a community. What I've found over many years of launching many communities and helping creators launch communities is that it can be a very confronting thing. And what I mean by that is, when you launch a community, all of your internal dialogues about, "Am I doing enough? Am I doing too much? Am I helping people in the way that I said I would be? Am I gonna retreat right now because I just wanna hide from everybody?" All of it comes up in your face. And for me, and this goes back to, like, I've created my entire career about confronting much of my own fears around this. For me, I find that confrontation to be such a gift and an opportunity for me to say either, "Yes, that's a good question. Let me sit with it and answer it." Or, " That question is actually just coming up because of past trauma and fears and things like that, and I just need to quiet it down. And I need to acknowledge that it's there." And that's part of me being like, " Hey, I'm here to protect you. I'm here to keep you safe." And then I could be like, " No, it's okay. I [00:26:00] really appreciate you stepping up, but like you can take a little nap now." And what a therapeutic approach to the work. But getting support through that self-leadership is so crucial. And I see so many creators and entrepreneurs burn out when they don't have it. And we have folks in our community who many times have been like, "I don't actually know if I want to keep going." And then we'll get on one coaching call and they'll be like, "Oh, this actually wasn't that serious. I was definitely in a place of dysregulation about this, and now I feel better." So yeah, just really important to have that support.
Sara: Oh, I mean, even hearing you talk through that, I'm like, oh. I also don't have to do it all myself. Be cause I struggle with every single gremlin you just mentioned. And so I'm trying to do a better job of, when my gremlins are the barrier, just recognizing, that can be someone else's job. I mean, there are people who are really good at whatever is setting off my gremlins. I think that's part of it too. For a lot of us, especially folks who are solopreneurs, we feel like we have to do it all [00:27:00] ourselves, and it's just a really good reminder that community creation and nurturing is challenging enough without feeling like we have to force ourselves to do it all alone.
Carrie: Yeah. And in fact, you cannot do it alone. It's not a solo activity. It's just not possible. You're creating something else. If you're creating it entirely alone and getting no support from anybody else, you're essentially creating like one-on-one services, just in a different package, right? To really create a community, you've got to see, recognize, and invite in the gifts of others and others' contributions. And you'd be surprised, people are often just waiting for the opportunity to be generous. People want to be asked for their contribution. Whether that means hosting a call in your community, or bringing their expertise to a workshop that they wanna run with you. We have people in our community who step up as volunteers to welcome in new members. And that's the thing that just makes them feel happy to be able to say hello to new people. And it stresses me out to have to personally welcome everyone as soon as they join. So we said, "Okay. You wanna do [00:28:00] this? Here you go. Here's a new person that joined, go say hi to them." Yeah. We have lots of volunteer structure in place in the CMJ community.
Sara: I learned so much by watching how you do it. It's so cool. So for any listeners who are like, I am gonna build a community, I can't wait, I'm super excited, let’s go! What would you encourage them to consider or do before they actually get started? What's the pre-work that you would recommend before someone turns on that Circle account and starts inviting people?
Carrie: That's a great question. I always recommend a couple of things. One is: start out by talking to people. Talk to people who you think you might want to invite to be in that community. And, we teach, as you were mentioning at the beginning of this, we're very rigorous in how we do this. We teach a template of questions you might want to ask to members. But it can just start out as informal conversations like, are you part of any communities around this topic? If so, what do you like about them? What is missing from them? What can I provide that's different? So number [00:29:00] one: talk to people informally and get their feedback. And that also starts building up excitement, and people want to support you as you go through that journey. That's number one. And number two is: test it first. Do a test run. That might mean hosting one workshop, like, a workshop you'd like to host in your community. If that's something you plan to do or one challenge or hosting the kinds of conversations you might wanna have in the community. Put them out there and test how they go on a small scale first. And bring that bodily awareness into how did this make me feel? Did I feel really anxious going into this and I was able to calm down and move through that anxiety? Or did I feel really anxious about this and then I just found it really overwhelming and I shut down? I just recommend with everything. It's about taking small steps every day. That's how communities are built, is one small next step at a time. And so start small, and then build from there.
Sara: I also think there's a subtle nuance in something you just said that it's not, " Am I anxious? And if I'm anxious, don't do it." It's, " Am I anxious to begin, and then I [00:30:00] settle in and get my role?" Because it's so easy to avoid the things that make us anxious. So much of what we have to gain is what happens when we just do it scared. It's like I start everything I do scared. And then once you get rolling, nothing, starts fun. Everything starts with anxiety. So I just think that's really wise to not have the standard be what can you do without being nervous?
Carrie: Yeah. I have to tell you, I've been doing this for many years. I get nervous before every single call I host. And now I host multiple calls a week in our community. Every single time I get nervous, and by the end of that call, I'm in our slack with our internal team being like, " I love these people" — in all caps. Because we also know that the reaction that our body has to anxiety is very similar to excitement. And so those things can get really mixed up for us. And the nervousness is okay. It's actually just keeping you on your toes in some cases.
Sara: Well Carrie, this has been amazing. I knew it would be, but this has been amazing. Where can people find out more about you and your work if they wanna hear more?
Carrie: So you can find me on [00:31:00] Instagram or LinkedIn, at Carrie Melissa Jones, and then my website is carriemelissajones.com.
Sara: Awesome. And anything else you wanna before we drop?
Carrie: Just that it's a long game. Community building and community participation. If you're not planning on launching and leading your own community, becoming involved in other communities is also a long game. And it takes time. Just be patient with yourself, and everything is an opportunity to open up to whatever might be next in your life. yeah. Just take one small step at a time.
Sara: If you're in a community as a participant and you're like, “I don’t know if this is for me…” Do you have anything that you would say, try or do or consider before you exit?
Carrie: Go back to the onboarding materials and see if you missed something. Nobody ever reads onboarding materials or watches the onboarding video thoroughly enough the first time. Go back and just see if there was an instruction you missed somewhere. Especially in the excitement of joining something new, you can often glaze over it. So, that's number one. And then [00:32:00] number two, I would just say, look at who the leaders of that community are and see are these people that you want to surround yourself with? And if yes, then just stick with it a little bit longer. And if no, then don't feel bad. Like it's not a cult. You can leave anytime you want. If it's a cult, like, that's a different conversation we can be having. But that's the whole beauty of communities is that they have permeable boundaries. You should be able to come and go. Otherwise, like I said, that's the definition of a closed cult.
Sara: Yeah. So then what about for community hosts who have started a community? They're up and running and they're like, “I don’t think this is for me…” or “I don’t know if I can do this…” What would you say to someone in that position?
Carrie: Very clearly: simplify. Delete whatever you have going on there. See if you can do 30% less. I have a feeling it will still be more than enough. Delete a space that you've created, delete an event series that you're planning. Just go down to its most simple, what is the easiest possible thing you can do and start there.
Sara: It's [00:33:00] fantastic advice. Well, Carrie, thank you so much. This has been wonderful. I can't wait to have you back when we can talk about your book in more detail.
Carrie: Awesome. Thank you so much for having me. This has been such a fun conversation and great to tap into this like part of myself. I often, I mask a lot. I mask it a lot.
Sara: Well, good. Well, this is a safe zone,
Carrie: Yes, I love it.
Sara: All right. That was my conversation with Carrie Melissa Jones about community building, for those of us who might not naturally gravitate toward group settings. I love Carrie's insights that community isn't a sprint, it's a long game. Something that takes time, and practice and patience. Whether you're participating or building. If you're interested in learning more about Carrie's work, you can find her on Instagram and LinkedIn as Carrie Melissa Jones, or visit her at carriemelissajones.com. Her book, Building Brand Communities offers a deeper dive into the frameworks that she's developed. [00:34:00] What resonated with you from today's conversation? Did any of Carrie's insights about quiet communities or the power of affiliation even without participation strike a chord for you. I'd love to hear your thoughts.
All right, friends, That's it for today. Stay in the loop with everything going on around here by visiting findrc.co/newsletter and joining my mailing list. Got questions? My email addresses are too hard to spell, so visit findrc.co/contact and shoot me a note that way. You'll also find me at @saralobkovich on most of your favorite social media platforms. For today's show notes, visit findrc.co/thinkydoers. If there's someone you'd like featured on this podcast, drop me a note. And if you know other Thinkydoers who'd benefit from this episode, please share. Your referrals, your word of mouth, and your reviews are much appreciated. [00:35:00] I'm looking forward to the questions this episode sparks for you, and I look forward to seeing you next time.
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