BS-Free Business: Why Simple and Sustainable Wins

CareersTech and Tools
Written By Sara Lobkovich

Tired of building your business or career for the "fantasy version" of yourself?

You're not alone. Many of us leave corporate environments that don't fit our neurodivergent, introverted, or strategically-wired brains, only to recreate the same extractive patterns in our own businesses. But what if there was another way?

In this episode, I sit down with Maggie Patterson, creator of BS-Free Business and author of "Staying Solo," to explore why so much business advice isn't designed for businesses like yours. We dive into Maggie's "real-life rule" — if it doesn't work for your real life (with all your caregiving responsibilities, mental health considerations, and actual capacity constraints), it doesn't work in your business.

Discover why being strategically wired can be a detriment as an employee but an asset as a solo business owner, learn how to build around your actual capacity instead of your maximum capacity, and find out why the best work you'll do might just be the work that feels easy.

Episode Highlights:

  • Why so much small business advice recreates the same toxic patterns we tried to leave behind in corporate life

  • How manipulative marketing tactics—like income claims and pain-point selling—harm solo business owners

  • Why neurodivergent and introverted people often thrive as entrepreneurs after struggling in traditional workplaces

  • The “real-life rule”: building your business around actual capacity, not fantasy capacity

  • How being strategically wired can feel like a liability in corporate life but becomes a superpower in solo business

  • Why the most sustainable businesses are often the simplest—lean, drama-free, and built to last

Key Concepts Explored:

  • The "real-life rule": building business around actual capacity and constraints rather than fantasy versions of ourselves

  • The neurodivergent advantage in solo business: creating accommodations for yourself that corporate environments can't provide

  • Strategic brain blindness: how strategically-wired people undervalue their most marketable assets

  • The employee detriment of strategic thinking: why strategic minds struggle in corporate but thrive as entrepreneurs

  • The paradox of easy work: why the highest-value, most enjoyable work should feel effortless when you're truly skilled

  • Income claim marketing and pain point manipulation vs. empathetic connection in business communication

  • Lesser of evils decision-making: sustainable business choices for people with anxiety, ADHD, and mental health challenges

  • Simplicity as competitive advantage: lean operations, minimal services, and building incrementally rather than perfectly

  • Right-sizing dreams and expectations to prevent business-induced breakdown during caregiving and life challenges

  • Neurodivergent entrepreneurship as affirmation: self-employment as refuge for those who don't fit traditional work culture

Common Questions Answered:

  • How can I build a business that works with my ADHD/anxiety/neurodivergence?

  • Why do I struggle with traditional business advice?

  • Is self-employment viable for introverts and strategic thinkers?

  • How do I build for my real capacity instead of my maximum capacity?

  • Why does my strategic thinking feel undervalued in corporate environments?

Notable Quotes:

"So much of online business is built on this fantasy version of yourself—someone with endless time, endless energy, endless capacity. And it just doesn’t exist." – Maggie Patterson [00:05:00]

"We left corporate because it didn’t fit—but then we build businesses that are just as extractive, just as harmful, just as unsustainable." – Maggie Patterson [00:07:00]

"If it doesn’t work in your real life—with your caregiving, your mental health, your actual capacity—it doesn’t work in your business." – Maggie Patterson [00:11:00]

"There’s this constant push to build a business around your maximum capacity. But what if we built around our actual capacity instead?" – Maggie Patterson [00:14:00]

"Being strategically wired can feel like a liability as an employee—but as a solo business owner, it’s your superpower." – Maggie Patterson [00:18:00]

"The best work you’ll ever do might just be the work that feels easy." – Maggie Patterson [00:21:00]

"So much business advice doesn’t just not fit—it actually makes us feel like we’re failing at someone else’s game." – Sara Lobkovich [00:25:00]

"The most sustainable businesses are boring. They’re lean, drama-free, and built to last." – Maggie Patterson [00:28:00]

"We need to stop glorifying hustle and start glorifying sustainability." – Maggie Patterson [00:30:00]

Chapters:

[00:00:00] Introduction: Welcome to Thinkydoers and introduction to Maggie Patterson
[00:03:00] Guest Introduction: Maggie's background and BS-Free Business approach
[00:05:00] Bad Business Advice: Why most advice replicates toxic corporate patterns
[00:07:00] Marketing Deception: Income claims and manipulative pain point tactics
[00:09:00] Corporate Struggles: Why introverts and neurodivergent people struggle in traditional workplaces
[00:11:00] Managing Anxiety: Practical approaches for business owners with mental health challenges
[00:12:00] The Real-Life Rule: Building business around actual capacity, not fantasy capacity
[00:16:00] Easy Work Philosophy: Why the best work should feel easy
[00:17:00] Strategic Wiring: How strategic thinkers can transition from employee to entrepreneur
[00:21:00] Simple Business: Why lean and boring businesses work better
[00:23:00] Neurodivergent Entrepreneurs: Affirmation for those who don't fit traditional work culture
[00:25:00] Connect with Maggie: Where to find her work and resources

Guest Information:

  • Maggie Patterson is the founder of BS-Free Business and a veteran content and communications strategist with more than 20 years of experience supporting entrepreneurs and business owners. After a decade in corporate communications, she shifted her focus to helping small businesses escape the toxic, extractive patterns that often mirror the very systems they left behind.

    She is the author of Staying Solo, a book that challenges the myths of online business culture and offers a roadmap for building a sustainable solo business that actually fits your real life. Known for her “real-life rule,” Maggie teaches that if a strategy doesn’t work with your caregiving responsibilities, mental health, or actual capacity, it doesn’t work in your business.

    Her work centers on dismantling manipulative marketing practices like income-claim promises and pain-point exploitation, while advocating for businesses built on integrity, sustainability, and simplicity. Maggie’s BS-free approach resonates especially with neurodivergent and introverted entrepreneurs, helping them embrace strategy as a superpower and create businesses that are lean, drama-free, and designed to last.

Connect with Maggie:

Sara’s Links and Resources:

Upcoming Events:

  • Catch Sara at the World OKR Summit! She’ll be speaking this October 30–31: okrsummit.org

Find full show notes and the episode transcript via https://findrc.co/thinkydoers.

Full Episode Transcript:

Sara: Welcome to Thinkydoers. I'm Sara Lobkovich, strategy facilitator and OKR expert, and I'm here for the strategic thinkers, the behind-the-scenes force multipliers, and anyone who's ever felt like a square peg in traditional business culture. If you're wired for change but sometimes struggle with organizational friction, moving goalposts, or feeling like you're speaking a different language than your leaders and colleagues, you are in the right place. Here we explore how to move from insight to impact, turning your strategic vision into undeniable outcomes that actually matter. Now, earlier this year I made a new friend online over our mutual use of the term BS in our branding — me with my No-BS OKRs and her with her BS-free Business. My guest this week is Maggie Patterson, creator of the BS-free [00:01:00] Business. Maggie's also the author of one of my favorite books of the year, which I really need to do a book bundle with — Staying Solo: Your Guide to Building a Simple and Sustainable Service Business. Maggie's a business consultant who's been working in online business for over 20 years. She works primarily with micro businesses, helping solo entrepreneurs build, sustainable drama-free operations. What really drew me to Maggie's work is her concept of staying small and sustainably small. So many of us left corporate because it didn't work for us, and then wind up struggling to figure out what does in our own businesses. If you struggle in corporate culture because you're neurodivergent, introverted, or strategically wired, you are of course in the right place. And if you've wondered whether self-employment could actually be a viable path, or if you're tired of business advice that tells you to build for your fantasy self instead of your real capacity, this episode is just for [00:02:00] you. We explore why so much business advice is designed for businesses that aren't like yours. We talk about building a business around your actual capacity instead of your maximum capacity, and we dive deep into why being strategically wired can actually be a detriment as an employee, but an asset as a solo business owner. That reframe alone might change how you think about your career path. So let's get into the episode.

Sara: Alright folks, I want to welcome Maggie Patterson to the show today. Maggie and I met online because we both released books with BS in the title right around the same time. So, I'd been using No-BS OKRs and Maggie works with BS-Free Businesses. We're gonna hear about Maggie's new book today and why the people listening to this podcast might wanna consider staying solo as a career [00:03:00] possibility. Maggie, I'd love to have you introduce yourself. Tell us who you are and what you do.

Maggie: I'm Maggie Patterson. I'm the creator of BS-Free Business, and I'm a business consultant. I work primarily with micro businesses — solo business owners, micro business owners, micro agency owners, and really helping them build a business that works for their life and really is a place that is free of drama and needless complication. Like, how can we make this as simple and sustainable and boring as possible?

Sara: I love every time you talk about boring business, my eyes light up. You've not just been in business, and I'm the same age so I'm not calling you old. You haven't just been in business for 20 years, you've been in online business for 20 years. Tell me a little bit about how you wound up working in online business 20 years ago, and what's kept you working online?

Maggie: Yeah. What's really interesting is I had a very kind of traditional career trajectory. I worked in corporate, worked in [00:04:00] agency, I've always worked in the tech industry and I started freelancing. While it technically wasn't online business at the time, I was the person for so many of my clients setting up their first blogs, helping them figure out how to do email marketing, all those types of things. So I really consider myself an "old on the internet," because I was in those first conversations about, "What are we gonna do about search engine optimization?" And since then, I've pivoted from doing more writing and content work to more business consulting. But over that 20-plus years of being self-employed, I've seen a lot of things come and go. I've seen a lot of things pronounced dead that were not dead. I continue to see an abundance of bad business advice, which I am really on a mission to help people get rid of. And help people understand that self-employment is a very viable path, and it doesn't have to look like building a huge team. It doesn't have to look like anything other than what is going to work for you as the complex, wonderful human you are.

Sara: So let's break it down into two [00:05:00] pieces, because you mentioned bad business advice, and again, that was one of the things that drew me to you is my own desire to find ways of doing business, and especially marketing practices, that don't feel yucky to me. And so let's separate that out and say: there's bad business advice out there, and there's bad marketing advice out there. Let's start with bad business advice. What are some of your big bads when it comes to what we hear about doing business?

Maggie: So much of what we see directed at small businesses, what we see directed at like true one- person businesses, is advice that's not designed for them. It's advice that replicates all the toxic patterns, all the extractive and exploitive business practices that we all leave our previous careers for. We don't wanna be part of that, and then we end up replicating those things in our business. If we have a team, we end up underpaying people. We end up exploiting ourselves. We end up [00:06:00] starting to use those sketchy marketing tactics because we are on this quest for this entrepreneurial prosperity gospel. It's like, "Make all the money, do all the things, I'm gonna be a big shot." That's actually probably not why we started the business in the first place. But it's easy to get swept away on that wave of bad business advice and really feel like, "Well, this is the only way to do it." And it is not the only way to do it. It's just the most loudest, most obnoxious version of it, which is in your face every day online.

Sara: So then there's the second part of it, which is the bad marketing advice. I have a long professional career in marketing that has always been focused on behavior change. I just have never been wired for fear, uncertainty, doubt. That's one of the things that feels yucky. One of the things for me that I'm really trying to extract myself from is, how we're "supposed" to do marketing, and how to do that differently. So tell me what you see in terms of bad business advice on the marketing side for practitioners.

Maggie: As someone who's [00:07:00] grown up in marketing like you did, I see so many of these practices that I don't even see being okay at a corporate level, but they're okay in the online business world because we're supposed to be scrappy and fighting for a piece of the pie. And that's where we get into really deceptive practices. Things that are really designed to tap into that fear, and uncertainty, and doubt, and make people feel bad about themselves, make them feel compelled to purchase something. And a great example I use — there's two of them I always like to refer to — income claim marketing. It really goes with what I was talking about a minute ago. Like, that "you can do it" freedom message. And what we get tied up in is doing marketing tactics to reach this elusive goal that our coach or consultant or whoever's been luring in front of us, when we only have a part of that story. That is a moment in time. Sometimes it's exaggerated, sometimes they're fully lying to us, and it is not attainable for everyone. And the second one comes from my copywriting background. [00:08:00] People love to talk, really push on those pain points. And the reality is, there's been this debate I've seen, it was like, "Well, we shouldn't use pain points at all." No, use pain points from a place of empathy and connection with your audience without manipulating them or feeling like they're broken or they're bad for having them. There's a way to acknowledge them with radical kindness and empathy and thoughtfulness, to be like, "Hey, if you are struggling with this, you're not alone. By the way, here's a potential solution." Not, "This is the only magic solution, and you must pay me $10,000 for it."

 

Sara: Okay, fantastic. I dove in because I'm selfish with the things that I want to hear you talk about, but let's lay some foundation here. One of the reasons I wanted to have you on is a lot of my listeners are probably struggling with some unhappiness in corporate roles. I hear all the time from my people, " I've always thought about starting a business, but..." I even see a lot of my solo consulting friends right now are going back to corporate, partly because of the macroeconomics and everything we're living [00:09:00] in. So tell me why staying solo can be a good choice, in your opinion, for people who are. Introverted or frustrated with what they experience in corporate cultures.

Maggie: So many of the things I struggled with in corporate culture, that I see my friends struggling with the corporate culture, probably things that you struggle with, Sara, in corporate culture, are around leadership and management, and being neurodivergent. There are so many ways we can recreate what we love about corporate but get rid of the things we don't enjoy about corporate. Great example is when I was early in my career working in an agency, I used to get in trouble all the time because I was thinking so hard in meetings, and I was not "talking enough". But when it came to creating the output for the client, or that one-on-one conversation with the client, I would be coming through with big insights. But that wasn't valued as much as my ability to, run my mouth in a meeting and try to showboat. Moving out of that, I [00:10:00] was like, "Is that a problem?" And I actually read the book Quiet  by Susan Cain, and I was like, oh, this is actually an asset. So how do I play to my strengths? I always joke with my corporate clients, I'm like, "I just wanna go away and do my work quietly. If you're looking for something else, I'm not gonna be it." I just had a conversation with some clients about this — when you are a neurodivergent, when you have different needs, you may not be able to get those accommodations in the workplace, but you can make them for yourself. I think we miss that often. It's like, I have the agency and the ability to make these choices for myself, and really set myself up to be successful, where I couldn't get that in a different environment. So, all the things we don't like about corporate, maybe you can't get rid of all of it, but can you get rid of some of the things that are most impactful on your enjoyment of the work and your stress levels on a day-to-day basis? As a human with anxiety, it's complicated, right? From my personal perspective, when my anxiety is at a higher level than the kind of the usual baseline is, we're in a situation of pick the [00:11:00] lesser of the evils. And I'm gonna be honest about that. I do live with ADHD, anxiety, a number of mental health challenges. So I have to decide in that moment. I'm like, "Okay. Not marketing the business or not doing things is not an option. So what is the most acceptable option in those seasons?" And sometimes that is: what is the most minimally viable version that I can actually do based on my capacity and my emotional bandwidth at any given time? But in a normal kind of season, I am still trying to pick the thing that is not gonna totally hijack my nervous system, is not gonna send me into overload. I've had a very complex relationship with video. I'm a writer, I'm a podcaster. I don't love doing video. I'm considering doing a video again. Part of that is not the actual doing of the video, it's do I have the capacity to manage this? Is the potential upside going to match the potential, downside for me, and it's like, how do I actually make this sustainable? [00:12:00] And I don't think we think about that enough when it comes to our marketing and how we're running our business.

Sara: You just brought me to my next question, which is one of the things I love about your book. Is it isn't just a case for solo hood, like it's not just a case for solopreneurship, for unconventional entrepreneurs like me. It is a case for it, and it's affirming of that choice, but you also really provide pragmatic support about how. When you are thinking about a low-energy or low-spoon or neurodivergent person, or someone who does have good and bad mental health phases, do you have anything to offer to people about how to build a business that can sustain through those highs and lows?

Maggie: We need to stop falling into this trap of building the business for our maximum capacity, the fantasy version of us. And I always joke the fantasy version of me has not existed since the early 2000s. That has like endless [00:13:00] energy and it just bouncing out of bed every day. that's not who I am, and that's unlikely to change. So how do I build the business? Around my actual capacity, around my actual constraints for real-life you? I started calling this the real-life rule of my clients, because they would have all these fantastic plans. They would do a planning exercise, like what you talk about in your book, and then they would bring it to me and I'd be like, This is great, but is this gonna make you feel like shit in three months? Is this gonna break you?" So like how do we adopt this? So when I say the real-life rule, like, if it doesn't work for your real life — for the caregiving, mental health, disabilities, any other given condition in your life — it doesn't work in your business. So we need to stop designing these dream businesses for perfect versions of us because we are complex, imperfect humans, who are literally in a lot of days, especially in this 2025 timeline right now, we're just trying to get through it.

Sara: My constant pursuit is simplification in my business, [00:14:00] and I'm very poor at that. I'm learning. While you were talking, I just had this vision of waking up on a day and then having more time than I do to-do list, like, actually having some white space in my schedule. I hadn't thought about it at that level of vision before. That if the business is right-sized for my life, then there would be less that doesn't get done every day to make me feel bad, that makes me feel bad.

Maggie: And I think what you just identified is that is the relationship a lot of people get into. Because most people who start businesses have visions and ambitions and big dreams. And it's like, how do we right-size those dreams for what's going on? I know when I was doing a lot of caregiving in one season, for my son at one point, and then with my parents at end of life, I had to really adjust my expectations for my business. And you know what? I'm really glad I did that, because I came out the other side of those things not completely broken. And that's [00:15:00] always been my goals, like let's not have the business be the thing that sends us over the edge. Because at the end of the day, it is work. I don't wanna overly put all my identity into it. I love what I do. I love my clients. I love the fact that I get to do all these fun things, like go on podcasts, and write a book. But at the end of the day, that's not completely who I am as a human. And I like the more we can kind of separate that, the better.

Sara: Yeah. I don't do a lot of career coaching. There are people who are better at career coaching than I am, but I do some career support work with my leader and career development folks. And one of the things that I had to see in other people to recognize for myself is that we don't have to make work hard. In order to charge money for something, it doesn't have to be hard. You can do what comes easy to you or do more of what comes easy to you. And we kind of take that for granted. You know, When we're building businesses, we make them harder [00:16:00] because work is hard. So, for folks who are struggling to make that shift of work needs to be hard or it's only work if it's hard, do you have anything that you use when you run into people who are struggling with that?

Maggie: Honestly, it's the real talk of the best work you're gonna do. The work that is gonna be probably the highest paying, the most enjoyable for you is gonna feel easy. And a place I see this a lot, and this will make you laugh, is I do talk about this in the book, is when it comes to strategy work, people have it so buried in all this other work they're doing. And it's because they have a strategic brain. They're truly like that Thinkydoer you talk about, and they don't even see it. And I'm like, do you understand how valuable that is and how much you could be charging for that? And they're like, but it's so easy. And I'm like, I don't care if it's easy. The work you're doing probably should feel easy at a certain point if you're actually an expert and you're talented and you're skilled. So if something is constantly feeling hard, you have a package that feels [00:17:00] difficult, you are always in these engagements that feel like so heavy. There's probably some shifts you need to be doing in the services you're offering. I do a lot of strategic planning because guess what, when we do StrengthsFinder, what is my number one? Strategy. So I lean into that kind of strategic thinking with clients versus being the nuts and bolts of "here's you're how you're gonna do everything step by step." I'm your big picture, and then I'm gonna help you drill through the tactics. But I'm not gonna be your tactician. I'm never gonna be that person.

Sara: I am really glad that you brought this up because that has been a theme in my career. Part of what kept me an employee for so long was that organizational preference toward tactical work. When I Painfully a strategist. my top themes are all strategic themes. So I think it's doubly challenging. And I also came from agencies, and so what I heard over and over is, "People don't pay for strategy." And your business, my business, there are lots of businesses that are walking, [00:18:00] talking proof that's not true. But when you are someone who has struggled in employment because of a strategic wiring. Do you have any advice or support that you would lend to people if they're making that possible step to entrepreneurship or solo entrepreneurship as someone who's strategically wired?

Maggie: It's a really interesting run because there's a lot of layers to it, but don't lose sight of the fact that strategy is valuable. Here's what I know as a strategist: you are probably amazing at the tactics, but you can do the strategy level that a lot of people can't. So if you can do those two things together and really emphasize the strategy, that is gonna help differentiate you. I cannot tell you how many times over the years I have been able to pull out a big piece of someone's services, and all of a sudden they're charging three or four times what they would for that, even to corporate clients, even to small businesses. And they're just like, that was money literally sitting in my [00:19:00] business that I was not making because I couldn't see it. So never sell yourself short on that. And maybe it's gonna be taking small strategic steps to get yourself to a point where you feel comfortable really selling strategy as a specific offer. But at the end of the day, people don't know what they don't know, so you may have to educate them. But the right people — the fuck yeses, as Sara said — they will pay for strategy. Honestly, I have got to a point where if you don't wanna pay for strategy, I don't wanna work for you, because I don't know what the hell you're gonna be doing. It's gonna be chaos.

Sara: One thing I heard there that I have also seen, not in my business so much, because I kind of started — I knew like there was nothing else I could do, I'm a strategist, period. But I do see service providers who have that tactical and strategic wiring. You might have to do the tactic for a while to earn the place in the market to do less of that and do more strategy. If you're [00:20:00] feeling stuck in the tactical work, you don't have to stay there forever. That's a stage in the business development. But the other thing that I thought of while you were talking is being strategic is kind of a detriment as an employee, people wanted what I had. When they wanted it, when I was an employee, and then lots of the time didn't. and so I'd never thought about it that way either that, maybe those of us who are strategically wired actually need to wrap our heads around the fact that what, our strategic wiring makes being an employee challenging. In some ways, and organizations that aren't designed for strategic people to succeed, need outside help. And that's how you and I have business. that's how we have businesses. and so putting those puzzle pieces together for myself makes me feel less like there was something wrong with me and more like I've just found where I belong to [00:21:00] operate.

Maggie: As soon as you said the part about the employees, I see this a lot with corporate clients. Like Sometimes we're engaged on the strategy level and sometimes we're not. And I can always see, like, I've got the chess pieces.I was talking to a client this morning and I was like, what about this, this and this? And they looked at me like they hadn't even thought about that part yet. But because I'm so zoomed out and that when you're an employee, amazing, like you said, when they want it. But you can also be the squeaky wheel, the pain in the ass, the problem child, because you are asking the questions about things that people in the C-suite don't wanna talk about or even deal with yet.

Sara: Yeah. So what's one piece of advice that you wish every service-based business owner would listen to and implement right now?

Maggie: Honestly, let it be simple. You don't need a ton of services. You don't need the world's fanciest website. You don't need 14 coaches. Your business can [00:22:00] run very lean. You can keep your expenses in check and really just build from where you are. I feel like people wanna have this perfect brand and perfect website and perfect everything. Like I started out with, granted it was a different time, but I had no website. I had nothing. I basically was like, here's my services and here's how much they cost, and I did a lot of networking. That's where I built from. You can build things as you go. You don't have to have everything perfect. And just know, all those strategic foundations like who your clients are, your positioning, those packages, those are always gonna be changing and evolving. I keep talking to my clients about the fact like, hey, you've been in business for a while, the world has changed. You've changed it's time for you to reset this. So. Even if you do it all perfectly now, a year from now, it's not gonna be perfect. So stop trying to achieve that.

Sara: So is there anything I haven't asked you that I should have?

Maggie: I am just gonna say, because I know you and I both have ADHD, a lot of [00:23:00] people in your audience are neurodivergent. I feel like for low energy, neurodivergent, anyone who struggles with fitting in in a traditional work culture, owning your own business can be one of the most affirming experiences. Because you no longer have to apologize or explain. You get to make the rules and make it work for you. We don't see patterned nearly enough. We see borough entrepreneurs. We don't necessarily know the names of all these people, but trust me, there are tons of people that are like you, that are neurodivergent, that have anxiety, that have depression, that are running their businesses, and it's been a really positive experience for them. And they're able to make more than they ever were in their corporate jobs.

Sara: I'm so glad you brought that up because the workplace can beat folks like us down. For me, entrepreneurship was a last resort. This sounds dramatic, but it's actually true. I didn't feel like I could survive another job and needed [00:24:00] to have some agency over the conditions of my work. I'm just really glad you bring it up because self-employment isn't presented as a likely career path for folks who have the characteristics that you just described. And it's not easy. This is the hardest thing I've ever loved. This in racing are the hardest things I love. When my spouse and I sit down on the hard days, I can't think of anything else that I would rather be doing. And the mission just gets stronger the longer I do it. All right, so where can listeners find you, your book? Where can they connect with your work if they wanna learn more?

Maggie: So I have the Staying Solo podcast, which is at bsfreebusiness.com/podcast. That was very hard for my brain apparently. My website is bsfreebusiness.com. I'm on Threads and Instagram sometimes at BS-free Business And I also have a really fun [00:25:00] quiz that is about capacity and everything. So if anyone wants to check that out, it's at bsfreebusiness.com/quiz. And finally, the book is at stayingsolobook.com.

Sara: Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining me, Maggie. It's great to get some actual live time with you.

Maggie: Yes, thanks Sara.

Sara: All right, friends, that's it. If you found yourself nodding along to Maggie's points about strategic thinkers struggling in corporate environments, or if her approach to building sustainable, boring businesses resonates with you, I would love to hear about it. You can find me on most social media platforms as @saralobkovich or email me at sara@thinkydoers.com. You will find Maggie Patterson at bsfreebusiness.com. She is most active on Threads and Instagram at BS-free Business. And definitely check out her capacity quiz at bsfreebusiness.com/quiz. Her book Staying Solo is available at [00:26:00] stayingsolobook.com, and her podcast Staying Solo has tons of practical advice for solo business owners. If you have questions, suggestions, or would like to connect, you can always find me at saralobkovich.com or on most social media platforms. And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Thinkydoers wherever you listen to podcasts. Leave us a review and share this episode with your connection. These conversations really matter, and they reach more people when you help spread and amplify them. Until next time.

Sara Lobkovich
Next

Leading Leaders Toward Masterpiece Creation